Speeding

[BTB 500]

Yep the fatal accident rate for rural roads in the UK is many, many times higher than for motorways. Nearly all NSL (60 mph) round here, on roads with numerous hazards e.g. pedestrians (there are no pavements), cyclists, horses, tractors, hills, tight bends, high hedgerows, houses, farms, etc.

 

[BTB 500]

This was written in 2015 but is probably still valid:

What are the UK's most dangerous roads | Safer Driving Tips |

The most dangerous roads are country lanes and rural roads. The number of people killed on country roads is nearly 11 times higher than on motorways.

www.insurethebox.com

 

[pillow]

Yep the fatal accident rate for rural roads in the UK is many, many times higher than for motorways. Nearly all NSL (60 mph) round here, on roads with numerous hazards e.g. pedestrians (there are no pavements), cyclists, horses, tractors, hills, tight bends, high hedgerows, houses, farms, etc.

To be honest this implies that speed limits need to cater to the lowest common denominator. So while some limits might seem lower than they could be for most drivers, there'll be someone out there that needs it.

Personally I'm not sure why people get worked up about some speed limits. How much time does it actually cost you on your journey. 30 seconds? A minute?

I feel like there are other factors that will tangibly affect your journey times. Largely traffic.

All too often do I find someone bombing past while I leisurely waft along, only to catch up a minute later at the lights or a queue of traffic at a junction.

 

[sgregory124]

Personally I'm not sure why people get worked up about some speed limits. How much time does it actually cost you on your journey. 30 seconds? A minute?

I'd like to suggest one of the reasons people complain about unnecessary/incorrect speed limits on certain roads is that some people just plain enjoy the act of driving. Nothing more complicated than that.

I fall firmly into that category.

All too often do I find someone bombing past while I leisurely waft along, only to catch up a minute later at the lights or a queue of traffic at a junction.

Same applies here - people assume that someone 'bombing past' must be in a hurry to get somewhere. Whist that might be the case sometimes, have you ever thought someone might just be enjoying themselves? As an example, I drive a particular rural section of the A444 frequently, I know it extremely well and can often be found passing people all over the place (safely I might add) - even though all I'm doing is going between my house and my mothers under no time constraints. Why? - because its loads of fun.

Simple surely?

 

[BTB 500]

To be honest this implies that speed limits need to cater to the lowest common denominator. So while some limits might seem lower than they could be for most drivers, there'll be someone out there that needs it.

On that basis the NSL should probably be 20 mph?!

Personally I'm not sure why people get worked up about some speed limits. How much time does it actually cost you on your journey. 30 seconds? A minute?

It depends how far you're going. We routinely do long-ish runs early in the morning when competing with our dogs. E.g. we were up at 05:15 yesterday to travel 130 miles ... averaging 65 rather than 60 (not really risking life & limb at that time of day) saved 10 minutes, which gave us time to eat a bit of breakfast when we arrived

 

[pillow]

I'd like to suggest one of the reasons people complain about unnecessary/incorrect speed limits on certain roads is that some people just plain enjoy the act of driving. Nothing more complicated than that.

I fall firmly into that category.

Same applies here - people assume that someone 'bombing past' must be in a hurry to get somewhere. Whist that might be the case sometimes, have you ever thought someone might just be enjoying themselves? As an example, I drive a particular rural section of the A444 frequently, I know it extremely well and can often be found passing people all over the place (safely I might add) - even though all I'm doing is going between my house and my mothers under no time constraints. Why? - because its loads of fun.

Simple surely?

If it's purely to enjoy yourself why complain then? (Not specifically directing this question at you)

There are plenty of roads (and tracks) in the UK to enjoy yourself, without speeding.

 

[pillow]

On that basis the NSL should probably be 20 mph?!

Well not necessarily the NSL, but certainly some NSL roads (feels wrong calling them that when they're single track with tall hedges either side) certainly should be more limited.

When I'm on my bike I routinely see people hammering down these roads and come screeching to a halt when some traffic comes the other way.

Is it legal to do so? Well I guess they're driving below the limit.

Is it smart? Obviously not, but there's no helping some.

Point out that they shouldn't be driving so fast on such a road and all you'll get back is that it's NSL and legal.

 

[E55BOF]

All too often do I find someone bombing past while I leisurely waft along, only to catch up a minute later at the lights or a queue of traffic at a junction.

You can extend that way of looking at it so that you never overtake anyone anywhere, just because they might catch you up again a minute later. There's often no point in passing one by one a queue of Wombles, pootling contentedly along at the speed limit, if that, in their Euro/Nippoboxes, but what if you're the second car in the queue? Pass the first, and you'll be first away at the next lights, not still stuck behind Womble No. 1.

Like Mr. Gregory, I like driving fast. I know the capabilities of my cars, and think/delude myself (choose whichever you prefer...) that I'm capable of doing so safely, and I certainly don't cut it fine and take the chances I did when I was younger and less experienced, but I don't see the harm in it. I don't mind you wafting leisurely along, though it's a waste of a car that can do so much better, but there's room for us all on the roads.

Male teenagers are more likely to be involved in an accident than any other category of driver. I was one when I wrote off my second car, a Cooper S, over fifty years ago because I didn't know how to drive it fast. I know better now.

Of course speed limits cater for the lowest common denominator; they have to, but I don't fall into that category now. It's not speed that is dangerous, it is inappropriate speed.

 

[pillow]

You can extend that way of looking at it so that you never overtake anyone anywhere, just because they might catch you up again a minute later. There's often no point in passing a queue of Wombles one by one, pootling contentedly along in their Euro/Nippoboxes, but what if you're the second car in the queue?

Like the last poster, I like driving fast. I know the capabilities of my cars, and think/delude myself (choose whichever you prefer...) that I'm capable of doing so safely, and I certainly don't cut it fine and take the chances I did when I was younger and less experienced, but I don't see the harm in it. There's room for us all on the roads.

Male teenagers are more likely to be involved in an accident than any other category of driver. I wrote off my second car, a Cooper S, over fifty years ago because I didn't know how to drive it fast. I know better now. Of course speed limits cater for the lowest common denominator; they have to, but I don't fall into that category now. It's not speed that is dangerous, it is inappropriate speed.

Exactly. If they catch up to you was it worth it? I overtake plenty of people, some catch back up behind me and some don't. When they do catch up I do ask myself was it my impatience and lack of judgement.

If you make a regular journey where you have the choice (lots of overtaking vs just taking it easy) I'd be very interested to know how much the laid back option cost you time wise.

I certainly feel like I'm a better judge now of when to make my overtaking worthwhile.

Regarding your point about knowing the capability of your car and yourself. How exactly can that be policed? Separate speed limits for different makes and model of car? Separate limits for different ages of driver?

 

[st13phil]

Point out that they shouldn't be driving so fast on such a road and all you'll get back is that it's NSL and legal.

A great example of the downsides of making speed limits overly important.

The safety lobby have spent years over-emphasising the need for absolute compliance with speed limits and (wrongly) implying that travelling at 1mph less than the posted limit = safety, while travelling at 1mph more than the posted limit is dangerously irresponsible. The result is that we have many drivers who actually believe that nonsense instead of developing and using their skills to drive to the prevailing conditions.

 

[pillow]

A great example of the downsides of making speed limits overly important.

The safety lobby have spent years over-emphasising the need for absolute compliance with speed limits and (wrongly) implying that travelling at 1mph less than the posted limit = safety, while travelling at 1mph more than the posted limit is dangerously irresponsible. The result is that we have many drivers who actually believe that nonsense instead of developing and using their skills to drive to the prevailing conditions.

What's the alternative of having speed limits?

People driving at whatever speed they deem safe? You honestly think that's a good idea?

 

[BTB 500]

As an aside, speaking of lowest common denominators ... does anyone know what the (advisory) 'max speed xx mph' signs you see on bends nowadays are based on?

 

[ALFAitalia]

The best speed to flick it sideways???

 

[sgregory124]

If it's purely to enjoy yourself why complain then? (Not specifically directing this question at you)

There are plenty of roads (and tracks) in the UK to enjoy yourself, without speeding.

Yes there are roads and tracks you can do that on, but then (as E55BOF points out) you come to the back of a queue of cars, all driving equidistant from one another and incapable or just plain unwilling to overtake anything, it takes the aforementioned fun out of the drive.

Ergo, speeding is required to get by in situations like this, otherwise you are doomed to be stuck staring at the back of that Nissan Qashqai for hours....

 

[sgregory124]

As an aside, speaking of lowest common denominators ... does anyone know what the (advisory) 'max speed xx mph' signs you see on bends nowadays are based on?

Probably a best guess from some pen pusher, with no driving license?

 

[st13phil]

What's the alternative of having speed limits?

People driving at whatever speed they deem safe? You honestly think that's a good idea?

That's not what I said.

My point is that by over-emphasising the importance of speed limits, the hard of thinking believe that so long as they comply with the posted limit they are driving safely.

 

[pillow]

That's not what I said.

My point is that by over-emphasising the importance of speed limits, the hard of thinking believe that so long as they comply with the posted limit they are driving safely.

I know that's not what you said, hence the question mark. You still haven't pointed out what alternative you're proposing. All I'm hearing is emphasis on speed limits is bad, but I'm not seeing what alternative you think is good.

 

[E55BOF]

You still haven't pointed out what alternative you're proposing. All I'm hearing is emphasis on speed limits is bad, but I'm not seeing what alternative you think is good.

Ignore them where appropriate and safe to do so, and there are no cameras or coppers. Simples...

 

[pillow]

Ignore them where appropriate and safe to do so, and there are no cameras or coppers. Simples...

And who decides what is appropriate and safe?


And are you suggesting no enforcement of any speed limits?

 

[st13phil]

All I'm hearing is emphasis on speed limits is bad, but I'm not seeing what alternative you think is good.

Safe driving requires the development of skills and judgement, and then the application of those skills and judgement. By concentrating almost exclusively on speed limit compliance as the primary criterion on which safety is judged, the myriad of other factors - observation, hazard perception, vehicle control, etc. - are diminished in their importance to the detriment of safety. It's about striking a balance, and I'm firmly of the view that the balance has become skewed in a way that harms safety rather than promotes it.

Driver education and training, focussing on skills development and use, would deliver significant benefits. But it's easier to dumb things down by having automated (or semi-automated) speed limit enforcement so that's what we have. The example of someone travelling at inappropriate speed for the conditions, but below the limit, on an NSL road demonstrates the failure of the speed limit compliance approach. And the answer isn't to reduce the limit.