The Complete M271 Engine thread. ( Revised and Updated )

[curly]

After reading R2D2 post about the supercharger , i started thinking a bit and before i share my thoughts and ask for expert opinion , i will post my car specs ( which i have done earlier in this thread )

C200K ( 03/04 )
W203
Kleeman Headers
K&N Intake
Remus Exhaust System ( without cats/resonator )
Kleeman Boost Kit ( Crank Pulley + Fuel Regulator + K-Box )


Thoughts :

Since there is nothing left to do in my car to increase its power , i was wondering if i can get the C230 Supercharger ( its bolt on ) the c230 supercharger got a smaller pulley than the c200 one , hence it gives more power and i do know that kleeman crank pulley is a different one so in short c230 supercharger + kleemann crank pulley will give me more power than what i have now.

Questions :

1. C230 got 193 hp while c200 got 163 hp , is the difference of 30 hp caused by the supercharger or it got something to do with Ecu/engine ? and if yes than how much hp gain am i looking at after replacing the c200 one with the c230 ?

2. Since my car already got a kleeman boost kit + Kbox installed ( which is made for c230 ) , do i need to reprogram my ecu or the kbox will handle it and i just need to change the supercharger and watch the gain !! is it true or am i missing something !!

thanks alot guys

Curly.

 

[markjay]

For the C230 MB dropped the compression ratio, which is something usually done to accommodate for higher boost pressures with Turbo engine, so my guess is that additional HP is achieved by combination of lower compression ratio and higher supercharger pressure.

The following paragraph is from Mercedes Performance Kits for the C200 Kompressor | Supercharger Performance and Engine Performance Parts :

'Here is the dyno proof for this modification posted by Carlsson, as you can see peak power is increased from the factory 163hp @ 5500 to 203hp @ 6000 rpms which brings the performance of the C200 closer to a C230 (with the advantage going to the C200 for its higher compression ratio).'

 

[curly]

i already have that kinda thing in my car from kleemann. and remapped ecu thru K-Box.

 

[curly]

Hmm no reply !! guess its something which no one tried so far. will try to get some more info and post here.

 

[curly]

Hiya guys ,

I was wondering if someone can put me in the right direction for buying brake Rooters/disk , at the moment i got the slotted disks in the front but not at the back and i was thinking of getting the back ones as i autocross with that car and it will surely help in braking .

i also want to buy coil overs for my car ( with height control ) , Eibach dont have anything for me , i am looking for belstien , there are D2 coilovers available and they work good on honda/toyota but i am not sure its a good thing for merc , any ideas ?? and are H&R better than belstien ?

My car :

C230k
W203
M271
Kleeman boost kit/headers
Hoosiers Slick tyres

 

[SchwarzesAMG]

An interesting ebay advert for Item No. 330447145176

In case it vanishes it says:

"Whether to replace your broken supercharger or in case you want to tune your engine (see below)!
Factory installation of the rare supercharger that comes to cars powered with M271 Evo (W203 C230 with 192 hp)

Sale of the supercharger Eaton M45 model fitted to specific vehicles from Mercedes-Benz series W211, W203, W209, W204, R171 equipped with 1.8l engine type M271!

The supercharger is new and never used on a car!
It has been tested on a bench with a special machine to ensure that it works as should and is ready to be fitted without any hesitation!

Mercedes-Benz equips its vehicles with the M271 engine with various turbochargers, which either differ in the mechanism (trident or spring) driven by the supercharger or the pulley size (large or small)!

This particular supercharger is Part Number A2710902780, which is driven by spring and comes exclusively in motor M271 Evo (the engine's W203 C230 Kompressor with 192 hp) One of the main reasons for the difference in horsepower compared to the other M271 (143 and 163 horses) as they are fitted in vehicles such the W203 series models C180 Kompressor and C200 Kompressor is the size of the supercharger pulley which is smaller, the pulley is in all other superchargers in size (internal diameter) 71mm
while in A 271 090 27 80 size (internal diameter) is 65mm thus raises pressure on the same engine speed!

It's a very good and proven solution to increase horsepower!
In a CLK200 Kompressor W209 MY2005 with 163 horses it has been observed an increase in hp by simply changing the stock supercharger (A 271 090 20 80) in 186 horses and it was on dyno before with 170 hp! Gains were at about 16 hp!
In general you should expect an increase of 15 to 20 hp!

Another good thing is the operation of the supercharger which is clearly quieter than that ofsuperchargers with a trident!

Changing your supercharger (A2710901780, A2710902080, A2710902380 A2710902680, and the large pulley) with A2710902780 is the safest upgrade you can make to your engine and always stay within the manufacturer's specifications!
Please note that the supercharger pulley is not an aftermarket product as these that occasionally appear on eBay!
The pulley is pressed on the supercharger and it is stock just like from factory just like the one you buy from a Mercedes Benz Dealer!
Nothing is changed, it is 100% new and stock!

Eaton supercharger for vehicles of Mercedes-Benz M271 engine
Part Number: A2710902780
Pulley Diameter: 65mm

Supercharger is new and unused!
Has never been installed on an engine!
It is tested for proper function!
It has some surface marks created during transport which in no case affect its working state! "

£750 for 15-20 bhp though???

Wow, dont know how i actually missed this one

This auction is mine and this week there was one more installation on an SLK200 Kompressor R171 MY2005 with 163hp!

Dont know if its worth the upgrade for someone but what i really enjoy the most is the by far more smooth performance it has compared to the 2080 i used to have fitted! Thats because 2780 has a spring for driving the pulley whereas 2080 is coupler driven!

In a few days i am going back home to Greece and having a dyno! Had some issues with the transmission the last few months so didnt get in trouble going for one!


What i would really like to know is if there is someone in here that has the CK20 from Carlsson Fitted!
A friend of mine did make the exact same pulleys Carlsson sells for a small fortune, we fitted them on a car and didnt see any noticable difference!
I have also noticed that they promise a gain in boost... how? Only they know cause there is no chance somebody builds more boost without fooling the BOV! Something which i dont think anybody managed to do till now...

 

[mikkke]

M271 tuners, how long have you had Kleemann boost kit installed? And have you encountered any issues? As far as I understood reading the thread only issues have occurred when using k-box combined with ecu upgrade.

I am considering upgrading 161hp version of the engine with boost kit for that extra low end torque, but I am slightly worried about the supercharger and the transmission in the long run. It is quite considerable extra 25% of power anyway.

If I decide to go for it I will try to get before and after dyno results posted here as I found this thread very thorough and useful.

 

[Ian B Walker]

I have just had a drama with a missfiring 271 C180K engine. To set the scene. Car was brought into me missfiring on tickover like a bag of bolts. There was a smell of rotten eggs from the exhaust. Ah one thinks, cat stuffed. Ok change the cat. Still missfiring. Run though star and upstream lambda sensor diagnosed as faulty. Changed that. Still missfiring. Took out spark plugs and they are all sooty (Running rich), renew spark plugs. Check and renew hoses to the inlet manifold. Further star test and Mas identified as wayyyyyyy out of spec. Changed that. Still missfiring. Did a compression test, 11.5, 12, 12 and 12 bar so thats ok. Ran Forte injector cleaner though system, no improvement. Check timing chain, its stretched by 1/2 tooth. Replace timing chain. Initial missfire. Spoke with Ollie and discussed the issue with him. Desensitised the injectors and behold, result. Thanks Ollie.

 

[BlackC55]

Happy to help.

 

[R2D2]

Desensitised?? What does this mean for us plebs?

 

[curly]

I have a Strange Problem which even Mercedes benz ppl cant figure out nor can i and since this is the only place i have learnt so much about my engine/car i just know that someone here might have an idea.

Well its like this , when i drag race with someone for 10 times , 7/8 times my car will perform to its max potential and 2 times it will perform like half power, like it lags and u just dont see/feel any misfire or any other problem , it just goes in lag mode and goes to 0-60 in like 15 to 18 secs while normal in 9/10.

i use the car in autocross racing and i have always had this problem when i used to run the car 3 times in a single go on practice sessions and the last one used to give me that lag mode , i thought it was the temperature which was causing the problem , so i changed the thermostat thing and while my race starts at night and its on cold engines runs, i never had any lag modes while driving in the race and because of that i was winning my races since last year without loosing but yesterday the lag mode cost me the 1st position and it was in my 1st run , that means that the engine was cold.

I cant afford to have this lag mode and i dont know any idea where to look because it doesnt give any stored errors on computer, someone told me that if the car knocks due to bad fuel , it will go in safe mode and will remain that way till i switch the engine off and on again but i dont believe that as when i drag i dont swtich engine off , it just performs once and doesnt the 2nd time .

I have checked my transmission oil / other oils / air intake / air sensors etc. the only thing that comes to my mind that could be the reason is the transmission itself but i dont see how it will fail only 2 out of 10 times.

My Car Specs :

C200K ( 03/04 )
W203
Kleeman Headers
K&N Intake
Remus Exhaust System ( without cats/resonator )
Kleeman Boost Kit ( Crank Pulley + Fuel Regulator + K-Box )


I will post the videos of my last nights race and u will see the difference in power.

2ndly i wanted to know if getting the abs off was easier in mercs like it is on honda etc or i should not fiddle with it at all as the ecu will go crazy one me ?

 

[Alex Crow]

what fault codes are you getting in conjunction with the 'limp home' mode?

the ABS and ESP etc can be turned off by using 'Dyno mode' - see here... 2003+ Mercedes-Benz W203 Dyno Mode Tutorial - YouTube

 

[curly]

Thanks alex for the abs/esp off , i did found something regarding it after i posted here but the video was definatly a good help , will try it out ,

i am not getting any stored or active errors regarding this problem , i researched a bit on the limp mode , normally the limp mode activates when something dangerous or unstable thing might happen and the ecu protects by going into limp mode and remains that way until u restart your car , i also heard that it remains on 3000 rpm , my problem is a bit different as i dont think i have to restart my car to get rid of it and also if u check the video i am post with the lag mode and not lag mode to have some idea .

Lagg !!! - YouTube with lag

IMG 0458 - YouTube without lag

 

[Alex Crow]

OK then, i wonder if the intake air temp is running too high after a few runs, this will do it.
obviously, the intake air is cooled with an inter cooler. if you are using lots of power without much speed this can allow the whole intake system to run a little too hot, causing the engine management to back off the power a little till it cools back down some. this will only log a fault (intake air temp too high) if it gets beyond a certain threshold - that would explain it.

 

[curly]

i never got that error but i will check it out tommorow to be certain , btw the lag video i posted was my 1st run last night and the engine was cold , apparently the other runs after that were after a gap of 40 mins each and all were at 100 % performance.

will get back to u with error report tommorow.

 

[YZYgold]

Ive gotten Limp mode before, It doesn't give any errors either. It comes on when your boost spikes, im assuming ur running close to 1 bar. Ull either need to run a piggyback or standalone ecu to bypass the boost cut.

I get these errors when im running high speed like 180++ for a longish time.

In the end i removed the pulley kit and retunned my car.

Mines a clk200 m271 163 bhp model, I changed the supercharger and kleeman pulley. But dekitted the kleeman pulley.

ZY

 

[tor_ake]

M271 fuelling (?) problem on C180.

I added a K-box recently but did not notice any measurable improvement in performance. Logging the OBD-2 values i see the reported AFR (deduced from lambda i reckon) is over 13:1 (instead of ideal <12:1) when the k-box kicks in at around 4000 and up to rev limiter.
When running stock, the AFR drops to a healthy 12:1 at the same time as the bypass is opened at around 4000rpm.

I am having trouble getting to grips with this, is it that the ECU is not adapting or could it be that the fuel system is maxed out? I know from reading other fitting instructions of the K-box that an adjustable fuel pressure regulator is sometimes added, but the supplier states that this should not be necessary for my car (2003 C180 estate)

Second part of the question, running closer to stochiometric rather than sub-12 AFR, could it be therein the lack of performance gain? Or is it just reliability? I know max torque is around 12:1 for petrol engines, and obviously there's about 10% too little fuel going in, but... Boost pressure with k-box is around 0.7bar according to both OBD2 and a cheap gauge.

Comments?

 

[tor_ake]

Ok... I'll restart with a simpler question: The MAF on the M271, what kind of signal is coming out of it? Frequency or volt 1-5?

I have seen the question asked on several forums, and afaik, the M111 MAF is volts (can be clamped with zener diode) but what about M271?

 

[tor_ake]

Ok... I'll restart with a simpler question: The MAF on the M271, what kind of signal is coming out of it? Frequency or volt 1-5?

Answering myself, output on the brown wire from MAF, nr3 pin is as follows:
0g/s = 0 Volts (ignition on, engine stopped)
3g/s = 0.5 V (idle, lights and AC off)
5g/s = 0,9 V (idle, AC+fan on 6, high+low beam lights)

 

[R2D2]

As I now don't have a M271 then its over to those of you who do!