The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

I don't suppose many people living in Westminster will miss £80 a year for EV parking. Probably not even £570 road tax from next year (£40k+ vehicle under 5 years old)?

The battery size distinction is odd ... perhaps trying to encourage smaller/lighter/cheaper city cars? But I can't see £40 a year making much difference!

 

[Will]

Not when you compare it to a tankful of fuel for an ICE vehicle, or even a few hours parking in London!

 

[BTB 500]

Not when you compare it to a tankful of fuel for an ICE vehicle, or even a few hours parking in London!

Or even a full charge of a 100 kWh EV at 79p per kWh on a motorway fast charger

 

[Bellow]

Or even a full charge of a 100 kWh EV at 79p per kWh on a motorway fast charger

The charger I was asking about earlier according to Zap Map is 'charging' 85p/kW.hr. Nearest motorway is 100+ miles away. Nothing to suggest it is a particularly 'fast' charger either (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's about time that recharging costs are not going to be the '2p/mile' cheap was recognised.

 

[BTB 500]

The charger I was asking about earlier according to Zap Map is 'charging' 85p/kW.hr. Nearest motorway is 100+ miles away. Nothing to suggest it is a particularly 'fast' charger either (correct me if I'm wrong).

Blimey. I just happened to watch a recent video (about the new eVito, which has a WLTP range of just 160 miles), and thought 79p per kWh for a motorway services charge was expensive.

It's about time that recharging costs are not going to be the '2p/mile' cheap was recognised.

As mentioned before I suspect many of the p/mile rates quoted are too low anyway as they don't take account of charging losses (it takes more than 1 kWh of energy from the mains to put 1 kWh into the battery), or additional mains power used to heat/pre-condition the car before setting off (particularly in winter).

 

[markjay]

The charger I was asking about earlier according to Zap Map is 'charging' 85p/kW.hr. Nearest motorway is 100+ miles away. Nothing to suggest it is a particularly 'fast' charger either (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's about time that recharging costs are not going to be the '2p/mile' cheap was recognised.

True, but another spanner in the works are free chargers - my local Aldi has three 40kW chargers, free of all - there's no parking limit and you don't even have to shop there. My guess is that they are getting a very good deal on electricity from their supplier.

And, some company car drivers are able to charge at work for free (for them), something they wouldn't have been able to do with an ICE car.

Again, this is the key issue with calculating the cost per mile - it really depends on your particular circumstances, and can vary from very little (or even zero) to very much.

I think that the reason we keep banging out heads over the cost per mile is that it's a legacy from ICE cars where fuel prices don't vary much, and the fluctuations in mpg for any given car aren't huge.

But when it comes to EV, the question should be rephrased to "how much would a mile cost for me?".

Perhaps it's more akin to housing prices - you wouldn't ask "how much does a home cost in the UK", because any single figure given in answer will be totally useless to you - instead you'd ask "how much will I have to pay for the house or the flat that I want, in the location that I want it".

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

It's fascinating scrolling through this nonsense and seeing how people still can't get their heads around how EV's are actually charged and used.

Nor that it's going to take decades for the transition to take place.

(40 million licensed cars on the road and new EV's being sold at the very gentle rate of 300,000 a year, rising to a very modest one in five of new sales in 2024. (2 million cars sold annually)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As an aside The bloke at the end of my road took delivery of a brand new full EV BMW i4 about six months ago and does not seem to be bothered with fitting a home charger on his drive ? my guess is that he charges it at work.

Why do you assume he doesn't charge it at home,

and why doesn't he drive anywhere but work?

If he's doing average mileage (8,000 a year) he would easily be able to keep it topped up to 80% with an occasional overnight granny cable. (Needs just 20 hours overnight during a week)

And if he doesn't have a driveway, it's less than a couple of hours charging a week when he's parked up at the shops, pub, gym, or wherever.

 

[clk320x]

Why do you assume he doesn't charge it at home,

and why doesn't he drive anywhere but work?

EVs can’t do more than 10 miles… don’t you know by now

 

[markjay]

EVs can’t do more than 10 miles… don’t you know by now

During the summer....

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

(Before anyone shouts that a three pin plug can't take 2kw / hour, there's always the alternative of granny cabling at 1kWh for 40 hours in the course of a week. (6 hrs / night or whatever)

 

[Noitz]

 

[SmartAmg]

View attachment 152496

Mmm, America, nuff said.

 

[BTB 500]

(Before anyone shouts that a three pin plug can't take 2kw / hour, there's always the alternative of granny cabling at 1kWh for 40 hours in the course of a week. (6 hrs / night or whatever)

You can get plenty of 3 kW plug-in electric heaters, so a standard 13A plug/socket should be good for that (240V x 13A = 3.12 kW).

Charging losses of up to 30% from a granny cable though, so in the worst case 8p per kWh could really be 10.4p per kWh when driving. Loss when charging via a wall box is 'only' up to 10%.

Fleets ‘losing’ electricity when charging electric vehicles (VIDEO)

AFP investigates as fleets report being unable to account for up to 15% of the electricity used to charge EVs, with charging cables a potential culprit.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

 

[markjay]

I believe that Chief Sitting Bull made a similar speech to his tribes.... and we all know how it ended for him

 

[markjay]

You can get plenty of 3 kW plug-in electric heaters, so a standard 13A plug/socket should be good for that (240V x 13A = 3.12 kW).

Charging losses of up to 30% from a granny cable though, so in the worst case 8p per kWh could really be 10.4p per kWh when driving. Loss when charging via a wall box is 'only' up to 10%.

Fleets ‘losing’ electricity when charging electric vehicles (VIDEO)

AFP investigates as fleets report being unable to account for up to 15% of the electricity used to charge EVs, with charging cables a potential culprit.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

I guess there'll always be a small number of motorists who will bend over backwards to get the cheapest possible (or free) electricity.

This will involve running long extension leads across the pavement, or travelling to local retail parts to charge, etc.

It's not a question of technology, but of personality.... it's the same people who milk every last mpg from their (mostly Diesel) cars today.

The thing is, that with electricity, the possibilities of getting it cheap (or even free) are endless, as long as you're willing to put-in the extra effort involved in making the saving.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

You can get plenty of 3 kW plug-in electric heaters, so a standard 13A plug/socket should be good for that (240V x 13A = 3.12 kW).
Charging losses of up to 30% from a granny cable though, so in the worst case 8p per kWh could really be 10.4p per kWh when driving. Loss when charging via a wall box is 'only' up to 10%.

Fleets ‘losing’ electricity when charging electric vehicles (VIDEO)

AFP investigates as fleets report being unable to account for up to 15% of the electricity used to charge EVs, with charging cables a potential culprit.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

Yes, we all know that, but the idjits get wound up about the risk of three pin plugs over heating, and "energy loss" if used for longer periods. (hence the photo of Scotty.)

As your article says, if you charge at high rates for a long time on a granny cable you "might" see a loss of up to 30%, but that won't happen if you choose the lower rate. (Obviously the 30% is nonsensical naive exaggeration)

My point was that people who haven't / can't install wall boxes can be using granny cables - at home, the office, or work. A significant number of younger company EV drivers don't have driveways or their own homes. And then you don't have to go round many light industrial units and small offices before you come across EV's being quietly charged "on the company account."

In the long run a wall box will be cheaper than a three pin plug because you can charge at proper off-peak overnight rates, and at faster speed.

3p a mile is an attractive rate to run a car charged at home off-peak on a wall box. I'm told 3p a mile is even cheaper than diesel these days.

As for Fleet News' article about EV power loss, it's great proof of the stupidity of some journalists. (I used to run a 300 vehicle fleet, and worked with salesmen for a more than a decade as well).

So, you have a company credit card or charge card that gives you electricity for your EV, charged direct to the company. Your wife, girlfriend, loved one, or good buddy also runs an EV. Need I say more? (Doesn't work with a Tesla supercharger, but it does for the rest). (Old Fleet Management tradition - the employee can't push it too far, but an extra 10-20%?)

In other news, some employees charge meals and drinks to their company credit cards for friends as well as themselves.

 

[Bellow]

True, but another spanner in the works are free chargers - my local Aldi has three 40kW chargers, free of all - there's no parking limit and you don't even have to shop there. My guess is that they are getting a very good deal on electricity from their supplier.

Sustainable? 'Free' could (and probably will) disappear in an instant.

And, some company car drivers are able to charge at work for free (for them), something they wouldn't have been able to do with an ICE car.

When it takes merely five minutes at a filling station, the iCE driver isn't missing much there.

Again, this is the key issue with calculating the cost per mile - it really depends on your particular circumstances, and can vary from very little (or even zero) to very much.

I think that the reason we keep banging out heads over the cost per mile is that it's a legacy from ICE cars where fuel prices don't vary much, and the fluctuations in mpg for any given car aren't huge.

But when it comes to EV, the question should be rephrased to "how much would a mile cost for me?".

Perhaps it's more akin to housing prices - you wouldn't ask "how much does a home cost in the UK", because any single figure given in answer will be totally useless to you - instead you'd ask "how much will I have to pay for the house or the flat that I want, in the location that I want it".

The UK housing market is some model to base EV recharge pricing on. But yes, it's looking a lot like pricing will be based on rate of recharging, availability of said recharging facility, and time of day. None of these limitations apply to liquid combustible fuels.

 

[chic0821]

Wots an EV, just got to grips with decimal money

 

[BTB 500]

I guess there'll always be a small number of motorists who will bend over backwards to get the cheapest possible (or free) electricity.

This will involve running long extension leads across the pavement, or travelling to local retail parts to charge, etc.

It's not a question of technology, but of personality.... it's the same people who milk every last mpg from their (mostly Diesel) cars today.

The thing is, that with electricity, the possibilities of getting it cheap (or even free) are endless, as long as you're willing to put-in the extra effort involved in making the saving.

Depends a bit on where you live though - there are only three charging sites (12 outlets in total) in our nearest town, and none of them are free. The 22 kW ones at Aldi are 59p / kWh.