The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

And that is at 23C. Wonder what the losses would be here today at 4C (1C this morning, colder still during the night).

1c in the morning? Definitely 8 mpg on the school run with my old E55. People should be warned.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Now look, why not demonstrate against EV's by setting fire to manure on the roads, as the Dutch are in the Netherlands?

Or demonstrate against taxes on diesel by blocking access to Paris with tractors, as in France ?

Or show you're really annoyed with climate change and CO2 reduction by turning village signs upside down ?

Let's not pussy foot around here.

 

[BTB 500]

Yes!....mine are like this....but the double version. I'm quite tempted to sink them into the wall.....they stick out a fair way....job for the summer.

I've got a single in one spot and a double in another. But also quite a few easily accessible standard sockets in various outbuildings. The only thing I use the outdoor sockets for really is pressure washing ... the garden stuff is all petrol or cordless now.

 

[Petrol Pete]

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He really doesn't like EV's does he !?

 

[markjay]

...sadly unemployment fell by a quarter since 2016

"Sadly"? :

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

"Sadly"? :

A huge disappointment to George Osborne, who had told everyone that an extra two million would be out of work - within a year - as a result of voting Brexit.

Those naughty Midland manufacturing constituency voters had said "Nah, we don't think so,"

and an extra 1.1 million hardworking ordinary people were back IN work by 2020

A huge difference to... deliberately misquoted...."worst case scenario" forecast by the BofE

.

 

[Connoisseur]

A huge disappointment to George Osborne, who had told everyone that an extra two million would be out of work - within a year - as a result of voting Brexit.

Those naughty Midland manufacturing constituency voters had said "Nah, we don't think so,"

and an extra 1.1 million hardworking ordinary people were back IN work by 2020

A huge difference to... deliberately misquoted...."worst case scenario" forecast by the BofE

.

omg! Squeezing Brexit into an ev thread!! Have the fast dwindling band of supporters of the pile of poo that is Brexit broken out to proselytise among the masses? Won’t work, the lived experience of crappier but more expensive food, fuel and far too many products disappearing from the shelves gives the lie to the wildest of claims from those now desperate to prove Johnson was a hero instead of the entitled upper class twit he has proved to be

There were no ‘extra’ 1.1 million uk jobs by 2020, and Johnson’s mates are now relaxing immigration rules to bring in even more people from India, Asia and further afield. Now it’s British jobs for anyone wherever in the world they live, just as long as they’re
not British eh lol

Back on topic?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

omg! Squeezing Brexit into an ev thread!! Have the fast dwindling band of supporters of the pile of poo that is Brexit broken out to proselytise among the masses? Won’t work, the lived experience of crappier but more expensive food, fuel and far too many products disappearing from the shelves gives the lie to the wildest of claims from those now desperate to prove Johnson was a hero instead of the entitled upper class twit he has proved to be

There were no ‘extra’ 1.1 million uk jobs by 2020, and Johnson’s mates are now relaxing immigration rules to bring in even more people from India, Asia and further afield. Now it’s British jobs for anyone wherever in the world they live, just as long as they’re
not British eh lol

Back on topic?

Just pointing out how people deliberately misquoted three different economic scenarios to mislead, as in “30% energy loss when using a granny cable.”

The UK did not see two million people pushed out of work within twelve months of the Brexit vote, as falsely misquoted by the Remain group in 2016

UK employment .
June 2016: 31.7 million;
June 2019: 32.7 million

Employment in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of employment, unemployment and economic inactivity for the UK.

www.ons.gov.uk

The point is about intentionally misleading by misquoting statistics. Cherry-picking if you will.

“Other examples of misleading with statistics are available”

 

[markjay]

Just pointing out how people deliberately misquoted three different economic scenarios to mislead, as in “30% energy loss when using a granny cable.”

The UK did not see two million people pushed out of work within twelve months of the Brexit vote, as falsely misquoted by the Remain group in 2016

UK employment .
June 2016: 31.7 million;
June 2019: 32.7 million

Employment in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of employment, unemployment and economic inactivity for the UK.

www.ons.gov.uk

The point is about intentionally misleading by misquoting statistics. Cherry-picking if you will.

“Other examples of misleading with statistics are available”

Yes, a lot of lies were told by both camps in the runup to the referendum. It seems that people voted based on which lies they preferred to believe.

 

[BTB 500]

Just pointing out how people deliberately misquoted three different economic scenarios to mislead, as in “30% energy loss when using a granny cable.”

Or even "up to 30%" "in the worst case", as actually posted.

Is ADAC's measured loss of 19.2% when charging a BMW iX from a 22 kW wall box at 23C ambient temperature misleading? Or 20.8% loss for a Ford Mustang Mach-E in the same test? Or 24.2% loss charging a Renault Zoe from a domestic socket via a 'granny cable'?

It is misleading to quote pence per mile costs for EVs based only on kWh drawn from the battery. It's the total power used from the grid that the owner pays for - including what's lost during charging, and what's used to pre-heat the car / pre-condition the battery before driving (if applicable).

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Or even "up to 30%" "in the worst case", as actually posted.

Is ADAC's measured loss of 19.2% when charging a BMW iX from a 22 kW wall box at 23C ambient temperature misleading? Or 20.8% loss for a Ford Mustang Mach-E in the same test? Or 24.2% loss charging a Renault Zoe from a domestic socket via a 'granny cable'?

It is misleading to quote pence per mile costs for EVs based only on kWh drawn from the battery. It's the total power used from the grid that the owner pays for - including what's lost during charging, and what's used to pre-heat the car / pre-condition the battery before driving (if applicable).

Absolutely. Just like mpg for a fossil fuel car. It’s an inaccurate number.

But whining that a granny cable isn’t a useful workaround to using a commercial charger or having a “proper” home charger “because of 30% energy loss” is more than silly.

Not as stupid as believing that all EV owners live in fear of “range” and remote commercial chargers that are always broken. But if it gives people an excuse to dismiss the deliberately planned, glacially slow introduction of new tech, why not?

Must rush. I’ve only got 100 miles of petrol in my car, so I need to plan a drive to a “petrol station” before I run out of fuel. Such a shame that I can’t just run a cable to it and have more than 250 miles of cheap fuel in it every morning when I set off.

 

[markjay]

Absolutely. Just like mpg for a fossil fuel car. It’s an inaccurate number.

But whining that a granny cable isn’t a useful workaround to using a commercial charger or having a “proper” home charger “because of 30% energy loss” is more than silly.

Not as stupid as believing that all EV owners live in fear of “range” and remote commercial chargers that are always broken. But if it gives people an excuse to dismiss the deliberately planned, glacially slow introduction of new tech, why not?

Must rush. I’ve only got 100 miles of petrol in my car, so I need to plan a drive to a “petrol station” before I run out of fuel. Such a shame that I can’t just run a cable to it and have more than 250 miles of cheap fuel in it every morning when I set off.

View attachment 152599

When I got my IONIQ 5, I chose the model with the larger battery and no AWD to maximise range (the quoted WLTP range for my car is just under 300 miles).

Mrs MJ and I started looking at what will replace the IONIQ 5 when the current lease expires, and we're actually looking at a car with a smaller battery and less range - we've never ever needed to go on a journey that exhausted the battery, and in the event that we do need to embark on a longer journey in future, I really don't see an issue with topping-up along the route.

This is from someone who has an EV since 2021....

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

When I got my IONIQ 5, I chose the model with the larger battery and no AWD to maximise range (the quoted WLTP range for my car is just under 300 miles).
Mrs MJ and I started looking at what will replace the IONIQ 5 when the current lease expires, and we're actually looking at a car with a smaller battery and less range - we've never ever needed to go on a journey that exhausted the battery, and in the event that we do need to embark on a longer journey in future, I really don't see an issue with topping-up along the route.
This is from someone who has an EV since 2021....

It's noticeable that charging sites seem to be everywhere now, unlike a year ago. They're just not difficult to find / see any more. And that's without using any App.

Now onto your Hyundai

Much as I hate EV's, at least the eight different models of EV I've driven so far,

the Ioniq 5 I still haven't tried, and generally seems the closest to my "old love" the SAAB 900 Turbo, from back in the day.

Will be interested to hear what you think is an improvement on the 5 , three years down the track. Will it be its cousin the Kia EV6 ?

The EV6 is the most impressive EV I've driven - very competent and intuitive - but, although it's mother thinks her little EV6 is beautiful, myself I'm not so sure.

If only MB made an EV that ....

 

[ALFAitalia]

If only MB made an EV that .... wasn't pig ugly?

Finished that for you!

 

[Smiley]

Is there any data on the number of people who actually buy an EV and then go back to ICE? My guess is that it will be quite a small % which would indicate that whilst not perfect for everyone neither are they sh!t for everyone.

 

[Smiley]

I guess that they would not be much good in very rural areas which don't have connectivity to the national grid.

 

[Smiley]

When I got my IONIQ 5, I chose the model with the larger battery and no AWD to maximise range (the quoted WLTP range for my car is just under 300 miles).

Mrs MJ and I started looking at what will replace the IONIQ 5 when the current lease expires, and we're actually looking at a car with a smaller battery and less range - we've never ever needed to go on a journey that exhausted the battery, and in the event that we do need to embark on a longer journey in future, I really don't see an issue with topping-up along the route.

This is from someone who has an EV since 2021....

Indeed. There is no point lugging a great big battery around. Imho the sweetspot is probably a 40-50kwh battery in a car that is not a fat overweight lump.

 

[ALFAitalia]

What rural areas would they be?... who does not have power these days?..... must just be down to a few thousand houses in the UK.

Edit Ofgem say that just 75 to 100,000 homes don't have a connection to the grid.....out of about 24.6 million dwellings in the UK....almost statistically insignificant... with some of those being a lifestyle choice (bloody hippies!).... but most being self built "green type houses" with their own generating capability.

 

[BTB 500]

But whining that a granny cable isn’t a useful workaround to using a commercial charger or having a “proper” home charger “because of 30% energy loss” is more than silly.

Not whining about anything here - I would certainly use a granny cable if necessary (particularly as I have solar power). But I wouldn't be telling people my car cost 5p per mile (or whatever) to run if that was based only on the power consumed from the battery while driving. Because it wouldn't be true.

 

[BTB 500]

I guess that they would not be much good in very rural areas which don't have connectivity to the national grid.

I'm in the West Midlands so not really the middle of nowhere (we have mains gas, electricity, and drainage). But as mentioned the nearest town to us only has 3 charging sites (12 outlets in total) for 13,000 people.