• The Forums are now open to new registrations, adverts are also being de-tuned.

The EV fact thread

Point remains, the Italians conquered the city car market in the 1950’s and, seventy years later,they’re still world leaders. Albeit closely followed by the Japanese.

There’s weak demand in 2024 compared to plan, but plans were formed before the Invasion of Ukraine that caused the inflation spike
 
My view is that we have missed the opportunity to set a path for small micro/mini EVs as urban private transport. Smaller vehicles with low emission.

Promoting these would increase competition with public transport - but at the same time why should buses or trains always be the didactic future if there is the opportunity to improve the private / individual transport options.

(At the moment we seem to have the worst of both worlds).
You swerved that path because you wanted bigger cars and the car manufacturers “needed” the bigger profits that come from complexit and size.

The Zoe’s been around for a decade (300,000+ sold in Europe) as a realistic competitor to the Fiesta, Polo etc but would you want one on your driveway?

Sad IQ Khan wants you on public transport, as does the whole Green Liberal Socialist coalition. You voted for EVs more than a decade ago

IMG_2510.jpeg
 
Can you imagine the size and weight of the battery required (and the resulting fire when hit) to power one of these?
And I suppose they'd have to use diesel generators to charge them in the field during a conflict. 😄
IMG_5300.jpeg
 
The Zoe’s been around for a decade (300,000+ sold in Europe) as a realistic competitor to the Fiesta, Polo etc but would you want one on your driveway?

The Zoe is a demonstration of failure - along with the Leaf. Encouraged by a previous generation of false subsidy. Again the Zoe wasn't cheap compared with the equivalent small hatch (and got tangled with Renault's battery leasing on monthlies). And I'd argue it was closer to a Ka than a Fiesta.
 
Well, it has been around since 2007... a novelty at the time, but a bit long-in-tooth now.

Even the EV variant of the 500 debuted as far back as 2008.

What's Fiat's next new small modern EV to replace the 500? And where will it be produced?

The current (2nd generation) electric 500 is only 4 years old, so is a small modern EV. The 1st gen 500e launched in 2013 but was only sold the US. There was a non-OEM conversion of the ICE 500 available before that, which is possibly what you're thinking of?
 
Can you imagine the size and weight of the battery required (and the resulting fire when hit) to power one of these?
And I suppose they'd have to use diesel generators to charge them in the field during a conflict. 😄

On a similar note 100 mph police chases could be much shorter when they're all driving EVs :D
 
Point remains, the Italians conquered the city car market in the 1950’s and, seventy years later,they’re still world leaders. Albeit closely followed by the Japanese.

Actually that's a good point - you'd think the Japanese would come up with a way to make electric kei cars NCAP compliant??

 
Shorter... and slower :D
Not slower (or much shorter) if they were both at the helm of one of these!!!....................0-60 mph in 1.89 seconds, 0-100 mph in 3.84........Tops out at 205 mph...... 1,234 hp and yet an EPA-estimated range of 427 miles on a single charge ........when not driven like this.:). The Lucid Air Sapphire.
1 Lucid Air Sapphire_0.jpg
 
Not slower (or much shorter) if they were both at the helm of one of these!!!....................0-60 mph in 1.89 seconds, 0-100 mph in 3.84........Tops out at 205 mph...... 1,234 hp and yet an EPA-estimated range of 427 miles on a single charge ........when not driven like this.:). The Lucid Air Sapphire.

2.4 tonnes :eek: (largely due to the 118 kWh battery?) ...
 
The Zoe is a demonstration of failure - along with the Leaf. Encouraged by a previous generation of false subsidy. Again the Zoe wasn't cheap compared with the equivalent small hatch (and got tangled with Renault's battery leasing on monthlies). And I'd argue it was closer to a Ka than a Fiesta.
I’d agree, the comparison with a Ka is fairer, particularly on spec. Can’t say I can compare how they drive as in the Zoe’s case I find wearing a balaclava whilst driving quite irritating.
 
The Zoe is a demonstration of failure - along with the Leaf. Encouraged by a previous generation of false subsidy. Again the Zoe wasn't cheap compared with the equivalent small hatch (and got tangled with Renault's battery leasing on monthlies). And I'd argue it was closer to a Ka than a Fiesta.
300,000 Zoe’s sold in Europe doesn’t look like a failure. Overtaken by Tesla and The Koreans, for sure, but ias a small city car it’s generally viewed as being a small city car.

Although you and I would obviously prefer a Fiesta, Focus or Golf / MQB any day of the week.

If you feel you could have built something better than a Zoe, tell the story… (BMW tried, at the same time, lost several shirts, and only sold three quarters of the volume that the Zoe achieved)
 
Actually that's a good point - you'd think the Japanese would come up with a way to make electric kei cars NCAP compliant??

Nope, they’d explain that making bicycles, motorcycles and Kei cars NCAP compliant would be a perfect example of bureaucrats losing sight of their objective.

IMG_2513.jpeg
 
Not slower (or much shorter) if they were both at the helm of one of these!!!....................0-60 mph in 1.89 seconds, 0-100 mph in 3.84........Tops out at 205 mph...... 1,234 hp and yet an EPA-estimated range of 427 miles on a single charge ........when not driven like this.:). The Lucid Air Sapphire.
View attachment 152987

I meant that the car being chased would slow down to maximise range....... :D
 
300,000 Zoe’s sold in Europe doesn’t look like a failure. Overtaken by Tesla and The Koreans, for sure, but ias a small city car it’s generally viewed as being a small city car.

Although you and I would obviously prefer a Fiesta, Focus or Golf / MQB any day of the week.

If you feel you could have built something better than a Zoe, tell the story… (BMW tried, at the same time, lost several shirts, and only sold three quarters of the volume that the Zoe achieved)

I did see lots of Zoe EVs in Italy. Not seen many in the UK though.
 
If you feel you could have built something better than a Zoe, tell the story… (BMW tried, at the same time, lost several shirts, and only sold three quarters of the volume that the Zoe achieved)

I suppose BMW got there in the end with the Mini Electric? No idea how good it is or what the sales volumes are though.
 
I suppose BMW got there in the end with the Mini Electric? No idea how good it is or what the sales volumes are though.

According to How May Left, there are currently 17.5k BMW i3/i3S pure-EVs on the road in the UK (i.e. not including the early hybrid models with the 650cc 2-cyl petrol range-extender engine).
 
I did see lots of Zoe EVs in Italy. Not seen many in the UK though.
I did say Europe. Hard to see Zoe's in the UK because of the great hordes of Teslas, VW's, Leafs, MINIs, Kias and Hyundai stood in front of those little town cars.
 
Last edited:
According to How May Left, there are currently 17.5k BMW i3/i3S pure-EVs on the road in the UK (i.e. not including the early hybrid models with the 650cc 2-cyl petrol range-extender engine).
BMW claimed to have sold their 500,000th EV at the beginning of last year. (Global, to include i3, MINI and all the others.

But did the i3 really reach / create its target market, and is an Electric MINI still just an EV for MINI owners?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom