The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

I have a business idea. A subscription-only website that examines articles from all over the Internet in realtime for anti-EV news and provides subscribed EV bashers with a news feed to use in their anti-EV posts on social media. Do you think I can make money

Wouldn't work. The charging mechanism would always be broken with massive queues

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Looks like a Segway with a training wheel, for the police who haven't quite mastered the real thing yet

Exactly that. Deliberately more stable for when things get lively. (with no "Presidential mishaps.")

Segway SE-3 Patroller

uk-en.segway.com

 

[philnewmerc]

Yesterday's Harry's Garage video pretty much sums up the EV situation regarding what is driving sales: massive tax subsidiaries for companies to buy the most expensive EVs which the trade and private buyers are weary of... £50k 2nd hand 1 year old Kia, who on earth is that customer? Do they really exist??

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

"Something for the weekend, Sir?" (That'll confuse the youngsters)

30 minutes of Harry ranting about why he's replaced his sturdy family diesel Range Rover with... a sturdy family diesel Range Rover Sport.

Something for both sides of the debate, although there's a lot of railing without prescription.

But for a petrolhead like Harry (and most of us): MRDA (Mandy Rice-Davies Applies)

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[MikeInWimbledon]

Yesterday's Harry's Garage video pretty much sums up the EV situation regarding what is driving sales: massive tax subsidiaries for companies to buy the most expensive EVs which the trade and private buyers are weary of... £50k 2nd hand 1 year old Kia, who on earth is that customer? Do they really exist??

We both posted at the same time.

Answer to your question: the Kia's and E-Niros are all over London, both as carriage trade and eco-carrier Congestion charge wagons.

In leafy South West London, the only cars I ever see with their leg's cocked up by an EV lamp post are carriage trade Kia's and E-Niros. The locals don't seem to use lamp posts.

Most EV's are obviouslymid- to small.

 

[markjay]

...£50k 2nd hand 1 year old Kia...

Which model is that?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Which model is that?

Presumably the diesel Kia Sorrento?

Them there diesels are a hard sell in the modern market.

 

[SmartAmg]

Which model is that?

EV6 ?

 

[markjay]

EV6 ?

I think they are around £50k+ new - for the top-of-the-range model?

 

[SmartAmg]

I think they are around £50k+ new - for the top-of-the-range model?

Yep, EV6 GT £62,000 new. So quite possibly £50,000 ish after 12 months.

 

[markjay]

Yep, EV6 GT £62,000 new. So quite possibly £50,000 ish after 12 months.

That's surprising - and in stark contrast to Polestar II nearly-new prices. Seems that the second hand EV market has its own loved and loathed models.

 

[markjay]

My car is on a business lease, so it's not actually mine, but out of curiosity I checked to see what a similar one will be advertised for in Auto trader:

It was £50k new (inc. VAT). Seems to have lost ~36% of its value in 2 years. And given that the advertised prices are asking prices, probably more likely 40% realistically? Is this good or bad for a £50k car? What would the 2-year depreciation figure be for a 2022 E-Class ICE with similar RRP?

 

[grober]

Yesterday's Harry's Garage video pretty much sums up the EV situation regarding what is driving sales: massive tax subsidiaries for companies to buy the most expensive EVs which the trade and private buyers are weary of... £50k 2nd hand 1 year old Kia, who on earth is that customer? Do they really exist??

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He started off quite well by opportioning blame on government policy and more importantly placing blame firmly at the car manufacturers feet at their failure to adequately respond to the challenge but sadly towards the end fell back on the well rehearsed anti-EV tropes we are all too familiar with. EVs are not going to save the planets atmosphere but they markedly improve urban air quality with high vehicle populations-how many more times do we have to hear this false ICE assertion/ EV rebuttal.
7 out of 10.

 

[philnewmerc]

Which model is that?

I was referring to 1 year old £50k Kia Evs - Once they're out of lease or company tax avoidance schemes then there has to be a private buyer to mop them up, and I think Harry's point for these and £100k German equivalents was do these private buyers exist? I find it unfathomable that someone would spend £50k of their post-tax salary on a used Kia but maybe I am wired wrong / living in the past?

 

[philnewmerc]

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He started off quite well by opportioning blame on government policy and more importantly placing blame firmly at the car manufacturers feet at their failure to adequately respond to the challenge but sadly towards the end fell back on the well rehearsed anti-EV tropes we are all too familiar with. EVs are not going to save the planets atmosphere but they markedly improve urban air quality with high vehicle populations-how many more times do we have to hear this false ICE assertion/ EV rebuttal.
7 out of 10.

Fair point. My own rebuttal would be 2 to 3 ton EVs in towns are not the way to go: LTNs* are with improved public transport and leave cars for travelling about when you need to go more than say 5 miles.

*Apologies if this causes anyone to choke with furry and their eyes bulge

 

[philnewmerc]

I suppose you could argue that the massive EV depreciation is good in that the tax payers subsidies to business trickle down to the private buyer of the 1 to 3 year old EV... When there's a £15k Porsche EV on Autotrader i'll be quite interested I have to say. But it would still mean I'd need to move to a house with a drive otherwise I'd be pummelled by outside charger costs that are similar to petrol.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Fair point. My own rebuttal would be 2 to 3 ton EVs in towns are not the way to go: LTNs* are with improved public transport and leave cars for travelling about when you need to go more than say 5 miles.

*Apologies if this causes anyone to choke with furry and their eyes bulge

Exactly, people who know the child killed by this 2.5 tonne diesel Range Rover Defender agree.

While driving similar diesels themselves, of course.

(A tasteless comment, perhaps, but it's diesels that started this fashion and which are still 99% of the problem in the UK.

EV's being barely 3% of the car population, with only a small part of that 3% being the bigger SUV's. The majority being very dull little to mid-sized hatchbacks & saloons).

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I suppose you could argue that the massive EV depreciation is good in that the tax payers subsidies to business trickle down to the private buyer of the 1 to 3 year old EV... When there's a £15k Porsche EV on Autotrader i'll be quite interested I have to say. But it would still mean I'd need to move to a house with a drive otherwise I'd be pummelled by outside charger costs that are similar to petrol.

What makes you think that commercial chargers have to charge 60p / kWh (or 15p / mile forever? (Commercial charging being half the cost of fuelling a 911 on 30p / mile)

OK, there's the 20% VAT, assuming that it doesn't get reduced

But won't EV charger costs come down over time? Especially when work and leisure car parks start installing chargers.

 

[ChipChop]

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He started off quite well by opportioning blame on government policy and more importantly placing blame firmly at the car manufacturers feet at their failure to adequately respond to the challenge but sadly towards the end fell back on the well rehearsed anti-EV tropes we are all too familiar with. EVs are not going to save the planets atmosphere but they markedly improve urban air quality with high vehicle populations-how many more times do we have to hear this false ICE assertion/ EV rebuttal.
7 out of 10.

Could it be you find the anti EV 'tropes' familiar, or well rehearsed?, because they are entirely factual?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

My car is on a business lease, so it's not actually mine, but out of curiosity I checked to see what a similar one will be advertised for in Auto trader:

It was £50k new (inc. VAT). Seems to have lost ~36% of its value in 2 years. And given that the advertised prices are asking prices, probably more likely 40% realistically? Is this good or bad for a £50k car? What would the 2-year depreciation figure be for a 2022 E-Class ICE with similar RRP?

For that money, Sir, we can put you in a very nice late 2022 BMW 530e, with similar mileage, that was comfortably over £50k new.



You want diesel, you say? No problem, sir. Not much demand for those these days. Here's the car for you. Over £60k just 18 months ago.