The EV fact thread

[philnewmerc]

What makes you think that commercial chargers have to charge 60p / kWh (or 15p / mile forever? (Commercial charging being half the cost of fuelling a 911 on 30p / mile)

OK, there's the 20% VAT, assuming that it doesn't get reduced

But won't EV charger costs come down over time? Especially when work and leisure car parks start installing chargers.

If it's expensive now then when the demand goes up I am guessing the price will not drop... or if it does tax will rise just as with petrol to make sure it stays high and opens a revenue stream for the government (which they will need post ice).

Anyway, 60p/kwh on a nice car (EQE/S perhaps) at normal motorway speed (lets say 75mph for sake of argument) and bearing in mind true consumption not what the dashboard says, in all weathers, is going to be about 2mi/kwh or 30p/mile... similar to my V8.

Never read what happened to the SUV death tragedy but I can guess: driver was not familiar with the car or driving here or both, pressed accelerator, panicked, kept it pressed... used to happen in the US.

 

[philnewmerc]

For that money, Sir, we can put you in a very nice late 2022 BMW 530e, with similar mileage, that was comfortably over £50k new.

View attachment 153009

You want diesel, you say? No problem, sir. Not much demand for those these days. Here's the car for you. Over £60k just 18 months ago.

View attachment 153011

I actually think the Hyundai is nicer / better designed, but I wouldn't want to own one with my own cash

 

[markjay]

I actually think the Hyundai is nicer / better designed, but I wouldn't want to own one with my own cash

Agree with both points

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Agree with both points

So should you have had the BMW 530d for an extra £10k it’s not ultimate spec, it’s depreciated more than the EV, but is that your preference, Sir?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If it's expensive now then when the demand goes up I am guessing the price will not drop... or if it does tax will rise just as with petrol to make sure it stays high and opens a revenue stream for the government (which they will need post ice).

Anyway, 60p/kwh on a nice car (EQE/S perhaps) at normal motorway speed (lets say 75mph for sake of argument) and bearing in mind true consumption not what the dashboard says, in all weathers, is going to be about 2mi/kwh or 30p/mile... similar to my V8.

Never read what happened to the SUV death tragedy but I can guess: driver was not familiar with the car or driving here or both, pressed accelerator, panicked, kept it pressed... used to happen in the US.

She was a local, living a quarter of a mile away, driving down the only road that leads to her house.

She claimed a medical condition. Locals wonder if it was distraction and possibly the very large pothole.

Point remains: in a lighter 1.5 tonne car the metal barrier barrier and metal gates might have stopped her car enough not to have killed the child and to have harmed so many staff and children.

 

[philnewmerc]

Regarding SUV EVs. Personally I think they're safer because of ground clearance: being dragged underneath a low car is a nasty way to go as you get rolled like a line of plasticine or dragged along, both bad. Whether 1.5 tones or 3 tons (3000 Kg) hits an object (ie human) of ~80 Kg makes little difference in terms of rate of change in moment (force). My concern about 3 ton mammoths is more about shear wastefulness, parking, traffic flow and road damage

 

[philnewmerc]

She was a local, living a quarter of a mile away, driving down the only road that leads to her house.

She claimed a medical condition. Locals wonder if it was distraction and possibly the very large pothole.

Point remains: in a lighter 1.5 tonne car the metal barrier barrier and metal gates might have stopped her car enough not to have killed the child and to have harmed so many staff and children.

True I suppose (would the gates stop an EV torque monster even less though?). But her excuse if true she was she was a ticking time bomb, so could have happened in any car and hit pedestrians on the pavement. If not true and she pressed accelerator by mistake she's a moron and that's difficult to legislate against.

 

[190]

Regarding SUV EVs. Personally I think they're safer because of ground clearance: being dragged underneath a low car is a nasty way to go as you get rolled like a line of plasticine or dragged along, both bad. Whether 1.5 tones or 3 tons (3000 Kg) hits an object (ie human) of ~80 Kg makes little difference in terms of rate of change in moment (force). My concern about 3 ton mammoths is more about shear wastefulness, parking, traffic flow and road damage

Agree that a pedestrian being hit by 1.5 tonnes or 3 tonnes makes little difference in terms of the weight. But being hit by a tall fronted SUV is considerably more dangerous than being hit by a lower fronted vehicle. The pedestrian is 45% more likely to die in an SUV collision and for children the figure is said to be many times higher. There was a time many years back when designs were beginning to take this into account with low fronts and bonnets with sufficient clearance under them to be deformable on impact. I think the bonnet clearance is still with us but the low fronts seem to have gone out the window now.

Vehicles with higher, vertical front ends raise risks for pedestrians

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Anyway, 60p/kwh on a nice car (EQE/S perhaps) at normal motorway speed (lets say 75mph for sake of argument) and bearing in mind true consumption not what the dashboard says, in all weathers, is going to be about 2mi/kwh or 30p/mile... similar to my V8.

If only there was some way of giving people average journey speeds of 75mph

In London we count ourselves lucky if we we average journey speeds of 10mph. Across the South East 40mph if you’re lucky.

Do you not have Labour and Liberal Councils up north?

 

[Bellow]

Point remains: in a lighter 1.5 tonne car the metal barrier barrier and metal gates might have stopped her car enough not to have killed the child and to have harmed so many staff and children.

The tragedy would have been avoided entirely had the woman stayed in bed that day. Don't blame the car for the driver screwing up.

 

[markjay]

So should you have had the BMW 530d for an extra £10k it’s not ultimate spec, it’s depreciated more than the EV, but is that your preference, Sir?

As an impartial observer, I have to admit that the 5-Series is one of the best driving machines on the planet. Having said that, a colleague had a string of 5-Series and 7-Series (before converting to Teslas), and having spent time in these cars, there's nothing about them that I personally like - I wouldn't want one.

As for the Hyundai I am currently driving - it was the highest spec available at the time - Ultimate with the two optional packs - the Tech pack and the Eco pack. What it does not have is AWD - I preferred the extended range of the RWD over the additional traction and performance of the AWD, and the 'Vision' glass roof that only became available in the UK a year later.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The tragedy would have been avoided entirely had the woman stayed in bed that day. Don't blame the car for the driver screwing up.

Point remains: in a lighter 1.5 tonne car the metal barrier barrier and metal gates might have stopped her car enough not to have killed that eight year old and to have harmed so many staff and children.

People drive SUV's believing that their brute weight will save themselves as passengers by crushing those that they hit.. Time after time that's disproved.

A colleague watched his wife, in their family Range Rover in front of him, roll the car with his three children inside it. None survived, of course.

Would it have happened in a low centre of gravity saloon or estate? Odiously not.

Is a 2 tonne Defender a rational vehicle for a 46 year old woman to pop to the shops in leafy South West London. Not really.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As an impartial observer, I have to admit that the 5-Series is one of the best driving machines on the planet. Having said that, a colleague had a string of 5-Series and 7-Series (before converting to Teslas), and having spent time in these cars, there's nothing about them that I personally like - I wouldn't want one.

As for the Hyundai I am currently driving - it was the highest spec available at the time - Ultimate with the two optional packs - the Tech pack and the Eco pack. What it does not have is AWD - I preferred the extended range of the RWD over the additional traction and performance of the AWD, and the 'Vision' glass roof that only became available in the UK a year later.

Ah, but the depreciation on those fossil fuel cars. £30,000 of depreciation in 18 months on that 530d.

Was that what made you choose your excellent EV instead, sir?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

What makes you think that commercial chargers have to charge 60p / kWh (or 15p / mile forever? (Commercial charging being half the cost of fuelling a 911 on 30p / mile)

OK, there's the 20% VAT, assuming that it doesn't get reduced

But won't EV charger costs come down over time? Especially when work and leisure car parks start installing chargers.

In future it could easily reduce based upon supply/demand, with discounts on very sunny and/or very windy days because the electricity generated must go somewhere. Whilst no doubt some will be captured - using schemes like the water batter my being planned in Scotland - EV owners could be incentivised to store it in the car’s battery. Let’s see.

 

[Bellow]

Point remains: in a lighter 1.5 tonne car the metal barrier barrier and metal gates might have stopped her car enough not to have killed that eight year old and to have harmed so many staff and children.

As would making the barrier stouter. Why wasn't it? If it's there to prevent the ingress of traffic - how or why did no one envisage a heavier vehicle? Still though, driver error was the primary cause.

People drive SUV's believing that their brute weight will save themselves as passengers by crushing those that they hit.. Time after time that's disproved.

Is it? Physics kinda says otherwise.

A colleague watched his wife, in their family Range Rover in front of him, roll the car with his three children inside it. None survived, of course.

A different accident scenario from the 'brute weight' case.

Would it have happened in a low centre of gravity saloon or estate? Odiously not.

A driver should be aware of what they are driving - ie, its basic architecture and how it behaves/responds dynamically. Anything less is driver error again.

Is a 2 tonne Defender a rational vehicle for a 46 year old woman to pop to the shops in leafy South West London. Not really.

Probably not (but the case for a 2 tonne diesel S-Class is barely stronger). But, my case for my SUV is strong but jeopardised by the anti-SUV rhetoric aimed at all of them no matter where and is really only a divide and conquer strategy before bicycles are the only wheeled transport permitted.

 

[markjay]

Ah, but the depreciation on those fossil fuel cars. £30,000 of depreciation in 18 months on that 530d.

Was that what made you choose your excellent EV instead, sir?

The reason I got the EV (I still had my much-loved W204 at the time) is the BIK.

The reason I chose the IONIQ 5 is that it received glorious reviews almost everywhere, and it was available from stock (my original choice, ID.4, needed to be ordered and I didn't want to wait weeks/months).

 

[Alfie]

For me, EV's only work in a busy city. As I dont live in or go near a busy city often, or at all, I dont need one. If I did it would be a small EV Smart car for short hops, thats it. Useless otherwise.

Hydrogen is the way forward.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Lol.... no.......it isn't. But its been said so many times on here that I can't be bothered to go into why yet again...... but mainly it just takes way too much electricity to make.

Not sure how EV are useless..... they can do 99 percent percent of what ICE cars can for 99 percent of people...... they might not be for me.... but they are certainly not useless. I take it you drive more than about 300 miles most days.... because the people who do that are about the only people who would notice any difference in convenience over an ICE car......

 

[Bellow]

Hydrogen is the way forward.

And how exactly will you be storing the hydrogen?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

For me, EV's only work in a busy city. As I dont live in or go near a busy city often, or at all, I dont need one. If I did it would be a small EV Smart car for short hops, thats it. Useless otherwise.

Hydrogen is the way forward.

Have you invented an affordable hydrogen passenger car? If you have, I know several manufacturers who would like to talk to you.

(Myself, I’m hoping for a water powered passenger car)