The EV fact thread

[ChipChop]

In future it could easily reduce based upon supply/demand, with discounts on very sunny and/or very windy days because the electricity generated must go somewhere. Whilst no doubt some will be captured - using schemes like the water batter my being planned in Scotland - EV owners could be incentivised to store it in the car’s battery. Let’s see.

I see little evidence that renewables will ever be cheap but feel free to elaborate on why you think at some indeterminate point in the future they will become so.

 

[ChipChop]

For me, EV's only work in a busy city. As I dont live in or go near a busy city often, or at all, I dont need one. If I did it would be a small EV Smart car for short hops, thats it. Useless otherwise.

Hydrogen is the way forward.

Fair to say the majority of UK cities benefit from excellent public transport systems so EV's, especially in there current bloated form, are irrelevant there too.

The exception would be a micro urban EV such as the Citroen Ami (a quadricycle) which would be ideal for the disabled or infirm to get about in. A modern day EV invacar, preferably UK made including the battery.

 

[markjay]

(Myself, I’m hoping for a water powered passenger car)

Ah... that would be Stanley Meyer's water 'fuel cell' then....

 

[markjay]

I see little evidence that renewables will ever be cheap but feel free to elaborate on why you think at some indeterminate point in the future they will become so.

Why do renewables need to be cheap? Leaded petrol was cheap, and we stopped using it. A car without seatbelts and ABS would be cheap, but the law says you can't sell one (new). We should legislate against those forms of energy generation that damage the environment the most. The cost of energy will be whatever the cost of energy is.... same as with unleaded fuel and cars that meet current safety regulations. Simple.

 

[markjay]

Fair to say the majority of UK cities benefit from excellent public transport systems so EV's, especially in there current bloated form, are irrelevant there too.

The exception would be a micro urban EV such as the Citroen Ami (a quadricycle) which would be ideal for the disabled or infirm to get about in. A modern day EV invacar, preferably UK made including the battery.

I fully agree.

However, people living in the suburbs may need to travel both inwards towards town and outwards into the countryside, which is where a decent 5-seater EV is needed.

 

[ChipChop]

Why do renewables need to be cheap?

Energy needs to be cheap as it one of the basic necessities of life.

 

[markjay]

Energy needs to be cheap as it one of the basic necessities of life.

So is food, and yet Beluga is expensive.

Only the minimum amount required to heat the home should be cheap.

 

[BTB 500]

And how exactly will you be storing the hydrogen?

Bags made from cattle intestines ("goldbeater's skin") are certainly very eco-friendly, but probably not a great choice for cars. Toyota and Hyundai have gone for boring old tanks in their current hydrogen-fuelled cars:

Toyota Mirai. Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle

The Mirai provides a remarkably quiet drive. Revolutionary Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology delivers true 0 emissions motoring. Buy yours online today | Toyota

www.toyota.co.uk

NEXO

Fuel cell power and hydrogen make the Hyundai NEXO a highly advanced family-sized SUV.

www.hyundai.com

 

[Bellow]

The exception would be a micro urban EV such as the Citroen Ami (a quadricycle) which would be ideal for the disabled or infirm to get about in. A modern day EV invacar, preferably UK made including the battery.

Not seeing any reason why the Ami's (or similar) suitability is confined to that cohort. To my mind it is the practical city EV which reduces to a minimum the strain on recharging infrastructure and demand.
I never found out why Steve Cropley was 'disappointed' with the Ami (buried under a load of advertising spiel I didn't have the time to wade through in his podcast). Does anyone know why? And what's the sketch with the Twizzy? Still on sale? Selling well secondhand? Still in use in cities?

 

[ChipChop]

So is food, and yet Beluga is expensive.

Only the minimum amount required to heat the home should be cheap.

Yes energy and food are two of the basic necessities of life. Energy inflation and food inflation reigns supreme in Net Zero la la land.

 

[Bellow]

Bags made from cattle intestines ("goldbeater's skin") are certainly very eco-friendly, but probably not a great choice for cars. Toyota and Hyundai have gone for boring old tanks in their current hydrogen-fuelled cars:

Toyota Mirai. Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle

The Mirai provides a remarkably quiet drive. Revolutionary Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology delivers true 0 emissions motoring. Buy yours online today | Toyota

www.toyota.co.uk

NEXO

Fuel cell power and hydrogen make the Hyundai NEXO a highly advanced family-sized SUV.

www.hyundai.com

Hydrogen is virtually unstoreable - the notion of it being an energy reservoir for surplus electricity generation is a complete non-starter.
It being 3/4 of ammonia which can be liquefied though, is more promising.

 

[ChipChop]

Not seeing any reason why the Ami's (or similar) suitability is confined to that cohort. To my mind it is the practical city EV which reduces to a minimum the strain on recharging infrastructure and demand.
I never found out why Steve Cropley was 'disappointed' with the Ami (buried under a load of advertising spiel I didn't have the time to wade through in his podcast). Does anyone know why? And what's the sketch with the Twizzy? Still on sale? Selling well secondhand? Still in use in cities?

The urban able bodied can use the excellent public transport systems provided for them. Or walk / cycle.

No idea what Autocar's disappointment was with the Ami or Twizzy. Possibly because they are quadricycles not cars so low top speed and range?

 

[markjay]

Yes energy and food are two of the basic necessities of life. Energy inflation and food inflation reigns supreme in Net Zero la la land.

Subsidise basic foods: wheat, flour, oil, eggs, milk, etc - and no one will go hungry. Subsidise public transport and no one will be stranded. Subsidise the first few kW pet home and no one will be cold.

Where will the money come from? Now don't get me started......

 

[Bellow]

The urban able bodied can use the excellent public transport systems provided for them. Or walk/ cycle.

When they have awkward stuff to carry and it's pissing down rain? Nope, you've not quite got me sold on that added difficulty in my life.

No idea what Autocar's disappointment was with the Ami or Twizzy. Possibly beacause they are quadricycles not cars so low top speed and range?

When the speed limit is 30 mph - top speed is irrelevant. Low range but fast charging lets more people access any particular charge point. Perfect for lamp post recharging.

 

[markjay]

Yes energy and food are two of the basic necessities of life. Energy inflation and food inflation reigns supreme in Net Zero la la land.

BTW... While I do agree with your comment, most people will accept a war over food supplies as a necessity, a war of survival, but a war over energy is seen as a frivolous act by warmongering politicians fueled by the 'military-industrial complex' and wealthy oil tycoons.

Why? If energy is one of the basics that a government should provide to its citizens (along with food and security), then why do we condemn leaders who go out and secure energy for their people? The statement that Bush invaded Iraq "for the oil" should be seen as a compliment, not a crime.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Energy needs to be cheap as it one of the basic necessities of life.

Exactly, which is why using renewables is the obvious way forward.

39% of the UK's now comes from renewables which is astonishing given where we were a decade ago when it was just 10.7%

As we master the conversion and distribution of wind and solar into energy, it seems... curious... to suggest that solar and wind are only going to get more expensive to convert.

 

[ChipChop]

Subsidise basic foods: wheat, flour, oil, eggs, milk, etc - and no one will go hungry. Subsidise public transport and no one will be stranded. Subsidise the first few kW pet home and no one will be cold.

Where will the money come from? Now don't get me started......

A deregulated energy market that requires subsidies to exist is a failure. Why should the public purse prop up a failed deregulated energy market when the money could just as well be spent reintroducing a regulated national energy market instead.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The urban able bodied can use the excellent public transport systems provided for them. Or walk / cycle.

No idea what Autocar's disappointment was with the Ami or Twizzy. Possibly because they are quadricycles not cars so low top speed and range?

Exactly. Newcastle girls on a night out should just take the bus there and back. They're tough girls.

Two different issues with the Ami and Twizzy, as they're very different machines.

The Ami is glacially slow accelerating out of side junctions. It's 0-28mph (its absolute top speed) in 10 seconds.
You need a big gap to pull out in front of 30 or 40 mph traffic. It's fine for kids driving themselves to school, but not for anyone looking at a rural or A road commute.
Build quality - slightly stronger than an egg carton, but you wouldn't want to test it.

The Twizzy, as loved by Stirling Moss, gives a degree of protection over a motorcycle, but is clumsy for most passengers and luggage and gives no weather protection.

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[Bobby Dazzler]

I see little evidence that renewables will ever be cheap but feel free to elaborate on why you think at some indeterminate point in the future they will become so.

I didn’t say that renewables will be cheap, however I did say that

In future it [EV charger costs] could easily reduce based upon supply/demand, with discounts on very sunny and/or very windy days

There is a limit to the amount of electricity the grid can take and so the National Grid must balance supply and demand and take action if there is excess supply.

Turning power stations off is expensive and turning renewable sources off is wasteful, and therefore using it to reduce the impact of excess demand is attractive.

This could be to store the excess energy by pumping water uphill, to later release that energy by using it to drive a turbine to generate electricity when there is excess demand.

This could also be to store the excess energy in the large and growing number of EVs to avoid charging - and even put back into the grid when there is excess demand.

To achieve that an incentive to charge EVs during periods of excess demand - and a greater incentive to put back into the grid - could be reduced pricing.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Subsidise basic foods: wheat, flour, oil, eggs, milk, etc - and no one will go hungry.

With a quarter of all British eleven year olds already obese, and 14% overweight,

perhaps we should be taxing basic foodstuffs, to make children eat less?