The EV fact thread

[poormansporsche]

The higher unladen kerb weight of EV commercials must create a plethora of issues. Lower load capacity could mean more trips to & from the depots, maybe even the need for larger fleets of EV vans compared to ICE's. Switching to EV vans heavier than 3500kg an option, if they exist?, but the pool of drivers with C1 licenses must be small.

Nail on head

 

[markjay]

The higher unladen kerb weight of EV commercials must create a plethora of issues. Lower load capacity could mean more trips to & from the depots, maybe even the need for larger fleets of EV vans compared to ICE's. Switching to EV vans heavier than 3500kg an option, if they exist?, but the pool of drivers with C1 licenses must be small.

True.

However, it all depends on what you need to carry. If you're OK with the limited load of an EV van for your purposes, then they're great - the additional unused carry capacity of a similar sized Diesel van will be useless to you anyway.

This is a mistake often made when evaluating EVs - for some reason, only the extreme use cases are considered. Of course an EV van isn't for everyone (yet), but it does seem to work well for many.

 

[BTB 500]

What difference does it make exiting a motorway onto the services to fill up with fuel as opposed to plug in?

Well obviously it takes longer to charge than put petrol or diesel into a tank (to make a direct comparison you would only be adding 15 litres or so, which would take maybe 30 seconds). The main difference though is that on the specific journey you quoted it's extremely unlikely you'd need to do this in an ICE vehicle, whereas in the EV mentioned it seems you would definitely need to stop in order to be sure of getting home.

To be clear if you'd posted about a trip that an EV was going to make without stopping, solely based on cheap home charging, and perhaps commenting on how inexpensive it was going to be (taking into account charging losses and pre-heating of course ) then that would have been much more impressive. I'm still surprised that a modern high spec. car like a Tesla Model 3 can't manage a 300 mile run when needed ... that distance is regularly quoted as a typical usable range for modern EVs.

As an aside I don't use motorway services in the UK - with a 600 mile range I never need to. Far quicker and cheaper to top up if necessary from any of the dozens of forecourts I pass beforehand that are just yards from my direct route.

 

[Alfie]

True.

However, it all depends on what you need to carry. If you're OK with the limited load of an EV van for your purposes, then they're great - the additional unused carry capacity of a similar sized Diesel van will be useless to you anyway.

This is a mistake often made when evaluating EVs - for some reason, only the extreme use cases are considered. Of course an EV van isn't for everyone (yet), but it does seem to work well for many.

EV's in the commercial world really do not work (yet). I personally dont think they ever will. The range is just so dire when loaded they are unworkable. I considered (briefly) an electric vito but the range meant my drive of 85 miles couldnt be completed with a return without a lengthy recharge. The destination didnt have anything other than a 13amp socket! Do I want to add a 40 minute stop in a service station to my journey? - No.

I havn't seen an EV towing a caravan yet. I presume some do (and take the hit on reduced range) but wonder how they recharge at a service station when they only have bays for a car. Unhitch and recharge perhaps?

As for the claim that EV's work for 99% of drivers, that is ludicrously unrealistic. Take the goods vehicles, taxis, emergency vehicles such as ambulances and fire engines etc are we really saying this group is just 1% of the drivers? No - Thought not. What about the vast swathes of the population that cannot afford an EV? Are they in the 1% too. What about the population that live in properties without a driveway? Yet another wildly optimistic statistic put out there.

I would suggest that the statistic is more like 99% of non commercial drivers who do short infrequent journeys, have a driveway, can afford an EV and the cost to install a charging point and dont want to tow anything, an EV probably suits them.

If they worked for 99% of the drivers then why do we see so few on the roads?

 

[markjay]

Well obviously it takes longer to charge than put petrol or diesel into a tank (to make a direct comparison you would only be adding 15 litres or so, which would take maybe 30 seconds). The main difference though is that on the specific journey you quoted it's extremely unlikely you'd need to do this in an ICE vehicle, whereas in the EV mentioned it seems you would definitely need to stop in order to be sure of getting home.

To be clear if you'd posted about a trip that an EV was going to make without stopping, solely based on cheap home charging, and perhaps commenting on how inexpensive it was going to be (taking into account charging losses and pre-heating of course ) then that would have been much more impressive. I'm still surprised that a modern high spec. car like a Tesla Model 3 can't manage a 300 mile run when needed ... that distance is regularly quoted as a typical usable range for modern EVs.

As an aside I don't use motorway services in the UK - with a 600 mile range I never need to. Far quicker and cheaper to top up if necessary from any of the dozens of forecourts I pass beforehand that are just yards from my direct route.

I don't disagree with anything you said. However, I would point out that there are many things that we used to do, and can't do any more, coal burning fireplaces is just one example.

EVs may or may not be more convenient, or cheaper to run, but that's not the point. EVs (both battery powered and Hydrogen fuel cell powered) have zero exhaust emissions, which is great news for city dwellers.

The question is whether the EV is an impossible solution to our personal mobility needs. So yes, you can't do a 600 miles run nonstop in an EV (yet), and yes you'll have to stop for longer when recharging than when refuelling.

So in some repects EVs may be (currently) somewhat less convenient than ICE cars. So what? They are better for out lungs, and people can still have their 600 miles run, albeit a little slower.

 

[ChipChop]

True.

However, it all depends on what you need to carry. If you're OK with the limited load of an EV van for your purposes, then they're great - the additional unused carry capacity of a similar sized Diesel van will be useless to you anyway.

This is a mistake often made when evaluating EVs - for some reason, only the extreme use cases are considered. Of course an EV van isn't for everyone (yet), but it does seem to work well for many.

A commercial loaded to near capacity is hardly an extreme use case. These expensive vehicles have a short life span and unsurprisingly are expected to pay their way. Not using load capacity is simply inefficient.

 

[clk320x]

I don't disagree with anything you said. However, I would point out that there are many things that we used to do, and can't do any more, coal burning fireplaces is just one example.

EVs may or may not be more convenient, or cheaper to run, but that's not the point. EVs (both battery powered and Hydrogen fuel cell powered) have zero exhaust emissions, which is great news for city dwellers.

The question is whether the EV is an impossible solution to our personal mobility needs. So yes, you can't do a 600 miles run nonstop in an EV (yet), and yes you'll have to stop for longer when recharging than when refuelling.

So in some repects EVs may be (currently) somewhat less convenient than ICE cars. So what? They are better for out lungs, and people can still have their 600 miles run, albeit a little slower.

 

[markjay]

A commercial loaded to near capacity is hardly an extreme use case. These expensive vehicles have a short life span and unsurprisingly are expected to pay their way. Not using load capacity is simply inefficient.

I have to disagree. Some items have large volume and little weight. I know, at work we ship stuff all the time..... rarely we get anywhere near the maximum load capacity.

 

[Bellow]

Hydrogen engines are in development and will, IN MY OPINION, take over from Ev's and all the negativity associated with them.

When you realise the challenges in getting ICE on hydrogen to work you'll change your view.
Mercedes promised HCCI (much simpler than hydrogen ICE) 20+ years ago (DiesOtto) and still hasn't delivered.

 

[ChipChop]

I have to disagree. Some items have large volume and little weight. I know, at work we ship stuff all the time..... rarely we get anywhere near the maximum load capacity.

Then your goods are the perfect use case for EV commercials with their higher unladen kerb weight. Carrying big boxes full of feathers must be fairly rare in the world of logistics i would have thought?

 

[MeQ]

EVs may or may not be more convenient, or cheaper to run

Mine is both and I can’t be the only one

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I'm still surprised that a modern high spec. car like a Tesla Model 3 can't manage a 300 mile run when needed ... that distance is regularly quoted as a typical usable range for modern EVs.

I'm still surprised that you don't know that a Tesla Model 3's range is either 344 or 421 miles, depending on whether you've specified standard or long range.

More importantly we know that all new EV's are heading in the 300+ mile range direction. Only a million EV's have been sold so far (less than 3% of UK cars)

But what's really amazing how so many EV sceptics are doing 300 miles a day routinely. And without a coffee or meal break

 

[philnewmerc]

When I say planned, he put it on the car satnav, it requires no thinking, so should be fine even for the least intellectual people.

Think you'll find intelligent people forget bin day as much as the rest. But yeah it's not too onerous as i say, just requires remembering to plan a bit. But planning is fun in EV life I'm sure

Anyway, today I was travelling across the north Pennines from the Lakes in manual gbox mode, v8 growling, supercharger whining, dab of oppo occasionally , sunroof open, heating on, etc

 

[Deleted member 55947]

The difference in payloads between ICE and EV Ford Transits

 

[clk320x]

Think you'll find intelligent people forget bin day as much as the rest. But yeah it's not too onerous as i say, just requires remembering to plan a bit. But planning is fun in EV life I'm sure

Anyway, today I was travelling across the north Pennines from the Lakes in manual gbox mode, v8 growling, supercharger whining, dab of oppo occasionally , sunroof open, heating on, etc

You can’t forget to put a destination in your navigation though? I don’t really understand what you mean.

 

[clk320x]

Anyway, today I was travelling across the north Pennines from the Lakes in manual gbox mode, v8 growling, supercharger whining, dab of oppo occasionally , sunroof open, heating on, etc

Sounds great. Been there done that too. But we need to remember the standard motorist drives a 1L ecoboom etc.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Carrying big boxes full of feathers must be fairly rare in the world of logistics i would have thought?

Don’t forget that a pound of feathers is heavier than a pound of gold.

 

[Will]

Think you'll find intelligent people forget bin day as much as the rest. But yeah it's not too onerous as i say, just requires remembering to plan a bit. But planning is fun in EV life I'm sure

Anyway, today I was travelling across the north Pennines from the Lakes in manual gbox mode, v8 growling, supercharger whining, dab of oppo occasionally , sunroof open, heating on, etc

Who honestly forgets ‘bin day’ on a regular basis? I’m sure you’ve tried to use this analogy several times now!

Do you forget to lock your car or put your shoes on or leave the house unlocked/windows open etc?

Most people do these things subconsciously, and as per many driving activities are carried out on autopilot.

I’d say, speaking for myself, it’s a pain when you have to go out of your way to get fuel. Eg fuel light comes on on way home but you can’t be bothered to stop or are busy/don’t have time etc. Monday morning you then need to drive to a petrol station when you’re undoubtedly busy as well and/or traffic is bad, queues at the garage etc.

Could have been topped up at home ready to go with no real drama. Unlike bin day, which is usually fixed, you can charge your car when it’s convenient at home - no drama

 

[clk320x]

Mine is both and I can’t be the only one

Add me to the list.

 

[poormansporsche]

But what's really amazing how so many EV sceptics are doing 300 miles a day routinely. And without a coffee or meal break

I do 300 miles most days without a coffee or meal break, or even a poop break (I like my own loo) but then I'm just abnormal apparently.

But I'm not a EV sceptic just a EV Van sceptic