The EV fact thread

[Alfie]

but you do that when you drive around in your W169?

P.S. I can’t see what’s so different about the Mercedes EV styling wise that makes it look anymore ‘normal’ than a Tesla.

I dont drive the W169. I own it but it is driven by others ;-) It was my sons first car
Even though its not the best looking Mercedes its still streets ahead of most electric cars.

If EV's were the panacea some would have us believe then why is there so much discussion and disagreement.

For Me and I emphasise those words, when Ev's are comparable in terms of versatility and application as a tool to augment my life I will buy one. They win on maintenance and smoothness hands down. They lose on environmental impact from cradle to grave so to speak, styling, refuelling, weight capacity, range and cost. For Me.

 

[grober]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[markjay]

I dont drive the W169. I own it but it is driven by others ;-) It was my sons first car
Even though its not the best looking Mercedes its still streets ahead of most electric cars.

If EV's were the panacea some would have us believe then why is there so much discussion and disagreement.

For Me and I emphasise those words, when Ev's are comparable in terms of versatility and application as a tool to augment my life I will buy one. They win on maintenance and smoothness hands down. They lose on environmental impact from cradle to grave so to speak, styling, refuelling, weight capacity, range and cost. For Me.

I have to disagree with you regarding styling.

While some EVs certainly look outlandish, there's still a good selection of EVs that look just like ICE cars, and it's not just EVs from Mercedes Benz which you have mentioned, but also EVs from Audi and BMW, among others.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Hands up who personally has bought (or financed) a brand new unregistered city car - regardless of drivetrain - in the last five years.

Bought personally for yourself (not family members or friends), and brand new spec-to-order (not demo/nearlynew, etc).

So cars like Smart, Fiesta, Corsa, Ka, 500, Zoe, etc (or smaller).

Still nobody, not even one?

 

[PXW]

Not in terms of vehicle cost if comparing broadly similar vehicles. Both the Toyota Mirai and Hyundai Nexo have 400 mile WLTP ranges. AFAIK the only EVs that can match that are the Tesla Model S and Mercedes EQS, both of which cost a *lot* more. Approximate current prices:

Mirai - £65k
Nexo- £69k
Model S- £94k
EQS- £105k

Or to put it another way if you pick a BEV costing the same as a fuel cell car it will have a much lower range. Big batteries are expensive.

Latest Tesla Model 3 long range - £50k, and WLTP of 421 miles on 18” wheels. Weight 1840kg.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Hands up who personally drives a low cost, super light, super small footprint, super efficient, city car - regardless of drivetrain - as their primary vehicle for themself.

So cars like Smart Fortwo, Smart ForFour, Renault Twingo, Volkswagen Up!, Suzuki Ignis, Citroen C1, Renault Twizy, Mitsubishi iMIEV, kei cars, etc.

 

[clk320x]

Latest Tesla Model 3 long range - £50k, and WLTP of 421 miles on 18” wheels. Weight 1840kg.

Will be interesting to see the rebuttal to this.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Will be interesting to see the rebuttal to this.

Everyone knows that the real world range is half of that, and in winter it halves again.

 

[ALFAitalia]

just dont get why the manufacturers, except Mercedes, dont make the EV's look like normal cars

Personally I think the squashed potato Mercedes is one of the ugliest of the lot....nearly as grot as the Telsa 3 and way worse than the Tesla S. Where are the lines?.... was the design mockup left in front of the fire too long, melted a bit and no one noticed?!...or was the melted w212 look a conscious decision?

After



Before.....

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Aesthetics are very subjective, but the intensity of dislike for Tesla styling really surprises me.

The design language originating on the Model S has stood the test of hime exceptionally well IMHO, and has been successfully translated to three other models of varying sizes and proportions, and are still in production in 2024 with minimal styling tweaks.

By this stage in te model lifecycle, most models from most major motor manufacturers would have had at least couple of facelifts, with one of which being a major facelift or a whole new model. Tesla haven’t felt the need to do that, and Tesla buyers on the whole are image conscious.

I personally believe that in the future could even been regarded as a design classic.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Tesla led the market and as most are company bought and paid for, for tax reasons .... they would have sold no matter what they looked like... within reason. What I dont understand about Tesla is that the model S looked pretty good from the off (as long as you don't looks too closely at the poor build quality which is slowly improving and the laughably variable panel gaps)... so why do the 3 and X... look like swollen duck faced blobs with learning difficulties.....maybe it's just me that likes hard lines to define the shape/look of the car rather than just its silhouette.....

 

[Steveml63]

Tesla led the market and as most are company bought and paid for, for tax reasons .... they would have sold no matter what they looked like... within reason. What I dont understand about Tesla is that the model S looked pretty good from the off (as long as you don't looks too closely at the poor build quality which is slowly improving and the laughably variable panel gaps)... so why do the 3 and X... look like swollen duck faced blobs with learning difficulties.....maybe it's just me that likes hard lines to define the shape/look of the car rather than just its silhouette.....

Hi,
The front & side profile of a Tesla Model 3 is extremely similar to a Porsche 911 (see the images from Carsized below)
The problem with the Model 3 is the ugly shape of the centre section of the front bumper - the blobby/guppy fish look.
Now that the front bumper goes straight across like the 911 on the refreshed Model 3 - I think it looks OK.

Porsche 911 2019-2024 vs. Tesla Model 3 2017-2023

Porsche 911 Coupé 2019-2024 vs. Tesla Model 3 Sedan 2017-2023. Compare car dimensions (length, width and height) vs. street perspective.

www.carsized.com

The Tesla Model S benefits from a more normal looking front - with a semi-grille.

Tesla Model S 2016-2021 vs. Tesla Model 3 2017-2023

Tesla Model S Liftback 2016-2021 vs. Tesla Model 3 Sedan 2017-2023. Compare car dimensions (length, width and height) vs. street perspective.

www.carsized.com

Cheers
Steve

 

[markjay]

More EV facts:

Driving from Heathrow back home this morning.

Average speed 28mph. About half of the distance was A road and motorway driving (A4/M4).

Ambient temperature 14⁰C.

Cabin heater, heated front seat, and steering wheel heater all on.

Calculated range with a 77kWh battery is 300miles. 'Real-life' figure.

 

[markjay]

Also:

For my smaller 74kWh battery, the predicted range for a 100% charge is 282 miles.

Again, these are my 'Real life' figures.

What would the range be if I switched off all the heaters, and put the car in 'Eco' drive mode? No idea, this isn't my real life..... it's just as hypothetical for me as asking what would the remaining mileage be if I was towing a caravan - I don't know.

 

[Petrol Pete]

There’s no service internal for any lubricant fluids on my EV.

Mercedes did that once with the 722.6 transmission....

 

[ALFAitalia]

Hi,
The front & side profile of a Tesla Model 3 is extremely similar to a Porsche 911 (see the images from Carsized below)
The problem with the Model 3 is the ugly shape of the centre section of the front bumper - the blobby/guppy fish look.
Now that the front bumper goes straight across like the 911 on the refreshed Model 3 - I think it looks OK.

Porsche 911 2019-2024 vs. Tesla Model 3 2017-2023

Porsche 911 Coupé 2019-2024 vs. Tesla Model 3 Sedan 2017-2023. Compare car dimensions (length, width and height) vs. street perspective.

www.carsized.com

The Tesla Model S benefits from a more normal looking front - with a semi-grille.

Tesla Model S 2016-2021 vs. Tesla Model 3 2017-2023

Tesla Model S Liftback 2016-2021 vs. Tesla Model 3 Sedan 2017-2023. Compare car dimensions (length, width and height) vs. street perspective.

www.carsized.com

Cheers
Steve

I find it hard to believe that many (any!) people have ever looked at a T3 and thought "mmm... thats looks a bit like a 911" way fatter looking especially at the rear as the side pics on your link show....
... but as in all things like this its personal taste. Build quality wise the Porker is miles ahead.

 

[markjay]

Mercedes did that once with the 722.6 transmission....

My Renault Scenic II also had 'sealed for life' automatic transmission. Since it only had 14,000 miles when I sold it, I didn't ponder too much on the question of whether I should abide by it or not.... And I believe that some BMWs had it as well.

 

[Petrol Pete]

My Renault Scenic II also had 'sealed for life' automatic transmission. Since it only had 14,000 miles when I sold it, I didn't ponder too much on the question of whether I should abide by it or not.... And I believe that some BMWs had it as well.

And all of them require some kind of service at some point.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Lots of brands use sealed fire life transmissions....and most of them don't have issues. Merc just got it wrong with that one. Volvo, Skoda, BMW, Hyundai etc etc. It's not like it gets the extreme heat cycling or fuel contamination that engine oil get. That said I would always change it on my cars.

 

[MeQ]

Personally I think the squashed potato Mercedes is one of the ugliest of the lot....nearly as grot as the Telsa 3 and way worse than the Tesla S. Where are the lines?.... was the design mockup left in front of the fire too long, melted a bit and no one noticed?!...or was the melted w212 look a conscious decision?

After

View attachment 153236

Before.....

View attachment 153239

That is definitely the EQEs worst angle, luckily not based on the w212 which for me has the ugliest rear end of all the modern Mercedes