The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

Interesting point about 5-15% loss due to charging the 12V battery (depending on state of charge I guess) - not obvious.

Actually I think I got that wrong ... I reckon it's the power needed to run the 12V on-board systems required for charging (battery monitoring, charge control, cooling fans, etc.). Plus a small amount to keep the 12V battery topped up.

 

[PXW]

Actually I think I got that wrong ... I reckon it's the power needed to run the 12V on-board systems required for charging (battery monitoring, charge control, cooling fans, etc.). Plus a small amount to keep the 12V battery topped up.

That would make sense, and would explain why lower rates of AC charge are less efficient - because this would effectively be an overhead “fixed cost” of the transaction (if I’m allowed to use financial language to describe engineering…!)

 

[BTB 500]

That would make sense, and would explain why lower rates of AC charge are less efficient - because this would effectively be an overhead “fixed cost” of the transaction (if I’m allowed to use financial language to describe engineering…!)

Absolutely, the amount of power consumed per minute would be the same regardless of charge rate. Not sure if there might also be an element of that in the AC to DC conversion (on-board charge unit) i.e. whether the loss there is directly proportional to the power going through it or not

 

[Alfie]

I did an exercise a while ago looking at getting 3phase (400v) into a commercial building. Despite the relevant supply being available not far away in the road, the costs were astronomical, thousands. I doubt unless you are like Robbie Williams and dont care about it, its not cost effective to have it in the home.

BTW, did anyone see Peter Jones on Dragons Den last night. He was spot on with that potential investment into putting a groove in the pavement. Old 'eco' Debroah disagreed. The fact they had just five installed was frankly laughable.

 

[pioneercollector]

BTW, did anyone see Peter Jones on Dragons Den last night. He was spot on with that potential investment into putting a groove in the pavement. Old 'eco' Debroah disagreed. The fact they had just five installed was frankly laughable.

I did, and totally agree, but i really had hunger pangs for some crisps & chocolate bars!!

 

[markjay]

Today's EV facts:

Only a short journey today, average speed 10mph (this is London....), temperature 14⁰C, no heaters running, the range for a full charge with a 77kWh battery - driving in Central London - is around 340 miles. That's way over the WLTP figure of 300 miles.

As I said before the range can fluctuate significantly both below and above the WLTP figure, depending on driving conditions and other factors.

 

[clk320x]

Only a short journey today, average speed 10mph (this is London....), temperature 14⁰C, no heaters running, the range for a full charge with a 77kWh battery - driving in Central London - is around 340 miles. That's way over the WLTP figure of 300 miles.

I wonder what the range of an ICE vehicle in this scenario would be?

 

[markjay]

I wonder what the range of an ICE vehicle in this scenario would be?

My Suzuki with the 1.6L only manages around 300-400 miles on it 44L tank.

 

[clk320x]

My Suzuki with the 1.6L only manages around 300-400 miles on it 44L tank.

I don’t know how you manage with those sorts of numbers.

 

[markjay]

I don’t know how you manage with those sorts of numbers.

 

[philnewmerc]

Also:

For my smaller 74kWh battery, the predicted range for a 100% charge is 282 miles.

Again, these are my 'Real life' figures.

What would the range be if I switched off all the heaters, and put the car in 'Eco' drive mode? No idea, this isn't my real life..... it's just as hypothetical for me as asking what would the remaining mileage be if I was towing a caravan - I don't know.

With respect, that is peak EV speak imho. It's like an ice owner resetting the mpg meter and driving for 30 mins at 55 mph and grabbing a screen shot of the 60 mpg and 1000 mile theoretical range the car gives. Why do EV owners never seem to do what ice owners routinely do which is say how far they *actually* drove before filling up with petrol/electrons? I'd never dream of believing what my dashboard says, weather it is mpg or range. Please send a screenshot of it having completed 300 miles without refueling at normal speeds and I'll believe it
PS at 70 mph (middle lane leisurely motorway cruise) I reckon that range will be not much more than 100 miles in the real world (ie 10 to 80%).

Pps I'm happy to be proven to be talking bollocks

 

[markjay]

With respect, that is peak EV speak imho. It's like an ice owner resetting the mpg meter and driving for 30 mins at 55 mph and grabbing a screen shot of the 60 mpg and 1000 mile theoretical range the car gives. Why do EV owners never seem to do what ice owners routinely do which is say how far they *actually* drove before filling up with petrol/electrons? I'd never dream of believing what my dashboard says, weather it is mpg or range....

Yes and no....

I posted a series of posts showing the data from my various trips. This was in response to claims that advertised range is not 'real life' range. And, if you see my previous posts, you'll note that I also posted data following mixed driving involving motorways etc.

My point was that 'real life' will vary considerably from one person to another. The data I posted is 'real life' data for my particular circumstances.

For example, I don't floor it. Someone else might ask what's the point is having a tri-motor electric rocket capable of sub-3sec 0-60, if you don't floor it? Obvoulsy, driving like that, no EV will get very far. Again, the point is that this is not my 'real life'.

I am not suggesting that everyone buying an EV will see the same consumption figures as I do. But on the other hand, always applying worst-case scenario to EV driving, does not make much sense either.

 

[W1ghty]

With respect, that is peak EV speak imho. It's like an ice owner resetting the mpg meter and driving for 30 mins at 55 mph and grabbing a screen shot of the 60 mpg and 1000 mile theoretical range the car gives. Why do EV owners never seem to do what ice owners routinely do which is say how far they *actually* drove before filling up with petrol/electrons? I'd never dream of believing what my dashboard says, weather it is mpg or range. Please send a screenshot of it having completed 300 miles without refueling at normal speeds and I'll believe it
PS at 70 mph (middle lane leisurely motorway cruise) I reckon that range will be not much more than 100 miles in the real world (ie 10 to 80%).

Pps I'm happy to be proven to be talking bollocks

Can we make this challenge in the winter when it’s near freezing and in the dark buddy

 

[markjay]

Please send a screenshot of it having completed 300 miles without refueling at normal speeds and I'll believe it

That's the sort of thing I was referring to...

I won't post a screenshot of a "completed 300 miles without refueling at normal speeds" because I don't normally drive this way. Doing something that I wouldn't normally do, just to demonstrate a point is NOT 'real life'. Equally, I will not post figures after changing the drive mode to 'Eco', setting the car to 'One Pedal' mode, and switching off the heaters in winter - because this is NOT how I normally drive the car.

PS at 70 mph (middle lane leisurely motorway cruise) I reckon that range will be not much more than 100 miles in the real world (ie 10 to 80%).

Firstly, I drive on Motorways using the 'auto-pilot', and the adaptive cruise control sets the speed. If there are other cars on the road, it is likely that my speed won't be 70mph. Again, I am not going to drive in the outer lane just to prove a point on the forum, because this will not be 'real life'.

As for the '10% to 80%' myth.... this has often been discussed here, it's to do with maximising battery life. There's nothing stopping you from starting your journey at 100% (which I often do, it's actually recommended by the manufacturer), or running down the battery below 10%. The same applies to all Li-ion batteries, BTW, including laptops and mobile phones, and yet people (rightly) use them as they need them, with some batteries lasting longer than other as result.

 

[markjay]

Can we make this challenge in the winter when it’s near freezing and in the dark buddy

There's no challenge to make.... I use the cabin heater when it is cold, as well the heated seats and the heated steering wheel (see my previous posts). Of course, the range will go down in winter - but it's not winter now, and I am not planning on taking the car to a Nordic country tomorrow just to prove a point.

My point - again - is that I use the car according to my needs. It is interesting to see how people who keep mentioning 'real life' also keep insisting that my car wouldn't be good enough if I drove it differently to how I actually so.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Range is only really a limiting factor if you intend to travel a distance very close to or beyond the expected range and cannot charge along way (or are vehemently opposed to it).

The rest of the time it doesn’t matter, so you would just drive normally with the aircon on if it’s hot or heating if it’s cold. Very few people drive an ICE for max efficiency, so why do it in an EV?

 

[philnewmerc]

True but real range is often not much more than a 100-150 miles at motorway speed (i mean ice motorway speed not geriatric EV motorway speed) and that is a bit too frequent a stop for many

 

[philnewmerc]

That's the sort of thing I was referring to...

I won't post a screenshot of a "completed 300 miles without refueling at normal speeds" because I don't normally drive this way. .

Have you any pic of the longest mileage you've done on a single trip without recharging? Fair enough if not what this car is used for, I just wondered.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

True but real range is often not much more than a 100-150 miles at motorway speed (i mean ice motorway speed not geriatric EV motorway speed) and that is a bit too frequent a stop for many

If someone rarely drives further than that on the motorway then the inconvenience of occasionally having to stop more often and for longer might be outweighed by the convenience of never having to go to a filling station at all on the other 360 days per year. Just depends on personal circumstances.

 

[philnewmerc]

I'm just perplexed by EV owners who always seem to say "look, my dashboard says i can do 400 miles" as if that means any more than the ice driver saying "look my dashboard says I'm doing 70 mpg in my 2 ton estate". Both are tediously inaccurate. Sorry

If someone rarely drives further than that on the motorway then the inconvenience of occasionally having to stop more often and for longer might be outweighed by the convenience of never having to go to a filling station at all on the other 360 days per year. Just depends on personal circumstances.

Totally agree.

I'm just perplexed by EV owners who always seem to say "look, my dashboard says i can do 400 miles" as if that means any more than the ice driver saying "look my dashboard says I'm doing 70 mpg in my 2 ton estate". Both are tediously inaccurate. Sorry