That sounds like a software bug
or the most appalling bit of design. I'll check my W205 and report back. Neither of our other MBs have brake hold or stop/start 
The EV fact thread
- Thread starter Petrol Pete
- Start date
That sounds like a software bug
or the most appalling bit of design. I'll check my W205 and report back. Neither of our other MBs have brake hold or stop/start 
ALFAitalia
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2022
- Messages
- 8,020
- Location
- Bognor Regis
- Car
- 2010 Mercedes W212 E Class E350 CDI Sport, 2006 Mercedes W169 A Class A170.
Hmm......Was fairly credible until that last paragraph....there are reps doing 30 plus K a year in Teslas (has one at my work only yesterday and had a long chat to him about it)....saying they are only good for around towns is complete BS. Search on this forum and you will find ICE car drivers with similar tales of gloom and doom....and some of the AMG drivers probably have less range than a Tesla too!! As for making zero sense in the real world......again BS. Obviously in a big and largely freezing country like Canada or the USA then there will be more charging issues.....but in a tiny place like the UK where nowhere is more than a few hundred miles away.....its a non issue.
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 49,588
- Location
- London
- Car
- 2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5 RWD / 2016 Suzuki Vitara AWD
That sounds like a software bug
It's in the owners manual... but then, "a known bug is a feature ", as they say
If the car is equipped with an electronic parking brake, then unfastening the driver's seat belt or opening the driver's door will deactivated Brake HOLD and activate the parking brake.
However, the W204 did not have an electronic parking brake... when I tried to leave the car, the Brake HOLD deactivated, the engine started, and the car became La donna è mobile..... as it was designed to do, perplexingly .
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 49,588
- Location
- London
- Car
- 2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5 RWD / 2016 Suzuki Vitara AWD
In town, my IONIQ 5 has more range on a full charge than my Suzuki on a full tank.
Obviously, it's the other way around on the motorway.
The argument here is, though, that it takes only 15 minutes or so to restore the Suzuki's range once the fuel tank runs low.
In this context, I think that much of the issues we hear about EVs are the result of the 'QWERTY syndrome' - the misapplication of processes developed originally for older technology.
You're not meant to drive an EV until the battery is at 10% and stop for a 4-hour recharge to 100%. Instead, you're meant to optimise the journey by making several short top-up stops along the way, and there's software that'll help you manage that.
The criticism is that this is not how we do it with ICE cars. True, and some people still use A-Z and a road atlas and refuse to be dependent on a satnav operated by an unknown algorithm. But the times they are changing.....
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 49,588
- Location
- London
- Car
- 2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5 RWD / 2016 Suzuki Vitara AWD
It's in the owners manual... but then, "a known bug is a feature ", as they say
If the car is equipped with an electronic parking brake, then unfastening the driver's seat belt or opening the driver's door will deactivated Brake HOLD and activate the parking brake.
However, the W204 did not have an electronic parking brake... when I tried to leave the car, the Brake HOLD deactivated, the engine started, and the car became La donna è mobile..... as it was designed to do, perplexingly .
Actually, I wasn't trying to leave the car, I opened the door to check the distance from the kerb.
And, at that point, all that stood between me and a nice little payoff from the Daily Mail, was the fact that when the car started moving, I stepped on the right (pun intended) pedal.
So I know how easy it is - and how close I was - to get it wrong.
Last edited:
SmartAmg
MB Club Veteran
That's there experience though. She says herself EVs are better suited to urban driving, we all know that. But yet reps do 1000s miles a year in EVs without problems. As for not sitting in the car when charging think there's a bit of paranoia there. And first I've ever heard of the vibrating, electric hum in the house while the car is charging, that's a new one. They gave an EV a go and don't like it, that's fair enough. Doesn't whatsoever make them bad. 
It's in the owners manual... but then, "a known bug is a feature ", as they say
Absolutely.
Is that the wording in the manual? If so the behaviour you mentioned is a bug as deactivating brake hold is conditional upon the vehicle having an electronic parking brake.
Did any W204s have an electronic parking brake? The W203 never did, but this didn't stop ours getting this MOT fail once
:
Per the W205 handbook, the parking brake on that is automatically applied if the driver's seatbelt is unlatched and the door opened while in Brake Hold.
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 49,588
- Location
- London
- Car
- 2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5 RWD / 2016 Suzuki Vitara AWD
Which makes sense. The W204 face-lift, however, had both Start/Stop and Brake HOLD... but no electronic parking brake. Hence why it took off when I opened the driver's door.
Yes, the “all out of the car in all weathers when charging” was a bit strange - especially as Tesla equip the car with a range of video games to play, TV to watch while the car is charging. If you choose to add that sort of “rule” to your EV life then I guess it would become a real downside - but I’ve never seen anything that suggests this is remotely necessary.That's there experience though. She says herself EVs are better suited to urban driving, we all know that. But yet reps do 1000s miles a year in EVs without problems. As for not sitting in the car when charging think there's a bit of paranoia there. And first I've ever heard of the vibrating, electric hum in the house while the car is charging, that's a new one. They gave an EV a go and don't like it, that's fair enough. Doesn't whatsoever make them bad.
And likewise, in 4.5years of charging a Tesla on my drive, I’ve never heard it in the house. You do get noises - fans etc, sometimes a bit of banging from thermal changes (but only ever heard that at very high current superchargers) but that again is all normal as the car does the necessary thermal management to optimise the charge.
Absolutely their experience and their choice. The operating model and experience for EVs is somewhat different from ICE, and unfamiliarity can breed concern, as it seems to have done here.
Just idly musing…in a parallel universe, where BEVs had always been the norm and petrol cars were just being introduced, you might imagine similar concern about the smell of gasoline fumes when filling up…
??
That just says you'll get a warning message if brake hold is active and you undo the seatbelt and open the door. You then have to apply the foot brake (manual gearbox) or shift into park (automatic) to deactivate brake hold.
The four conditions where brake hold will deactivate automatically are listed at the bottom of the left hand column.
(on holiday…)
Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
If feeding the world was genuinely a concern, meat would be eradicated and grain currently wastefully fed to livestock would be available for that purpose. Blaming bio-fuels for people going unfed when the 'developed' world wastes crops solely for its own dietary preferences is a new low. Some must really want electrification to be the only game in town...
Fuel or Food? Study Sees Increasing Competition for Land, Water Resources
With the Earth’s population at about 7.4 billion people, and projected to grow to about 9 billion by the middle of the century, the need for food and fuel could increasingly be at odds.news.virginia.edu
"These results clearly show the extent to which biofuels are competing with food for the limited land and water resources of the planet, and are becoming an additional obstacle to bringing food production in line with the increasing needs of the human population"
“Biofuels are a failed experiment. To continue to burn food as fuel while the world is facing a growing global food crisis is borderline criminal. Countries like Germany and Belgium are discussing limiting food crop biofuels in response. "
Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Bio-fuels will become a necessity to deal with food and other agricultural waste products to put an end to their CO2 release as they are left to rot. By the time that reality dawns on those who believe anyone who isn't 100% singing the praises of EVs is incapable of change - there will be no IC engines that can utilise the fuel.
ALFAitalia
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2022
- Messages
- 8,020
- Location
- Bognor Regis
- Car
- 2010 Mercedes W212 E Class E350 CDI Sport, 2006 Mercedes W169 A Class A170.
No bio fuel (or other fuel burnt in an ICE will ever equal the energy input to work output efficiency of an EV....its just not possible.
Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Nor need a 500kg fuel tank.
That single metric is of little consequence when CARBON NEUTRAL bio-fuels have zero environmental impact in combustion. There are so many other demerits with EVs (beyond half ton fuel tanks) that we needn't be troubled by ICE's lesser thermal efficiency. In any case until ALL electrical generation for EVs is from renewables the TEs (although better than auto engines) of other electricity generation has to be factored in to EV 'efficiency'. The blabber that that will diminish is only valid if renewable generation keeps pace with increasing electricity demand - which more EVs and domestic and business premises transitioning to electric heating will tax severely.
More and more electrification of road transportation is looking like a knee jerk reaction and endorsed by decision makers with no grasp of science and those who can blag a top end car for cheap once freed from the tax avoiding business leases.
ALFAitalia
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2022
- Messages
- 8,020
- Location
- Bognor Regis
- Car
- 2010 Mercedes W212 E Class E350 CDI Sport, 2006 Mercedes W169 A Class A170.
Thats just not true.....what about the nasty NOX and the carbon monoxide they produce among others when burnt...
Then there is this...
Biofuels Are Not a Green Alternative to Fossil Fuels
Biofuels and bioenergy take up finite land resources at the cost of food production and carbon storage and doesn’t guarantee carbon emissions cuts.
Biofuels turn out to be a climate mistake – here’s why
A new study challenges the longstanding view that biofuels are carbon-neutral, and asserts that in the U.S. to date, they have done more harm to the climate than gasoline.
theconversation.com
Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
For what feels like the thousandth time, NOx is only problematic with engines attempting (needlessly with bio-fuels) to minimise fuel consumption via downsizing at high in-cylinder pressure engines.
Feeding livestock is the reason land is at a premium. Easily solved with the will to do it.Then there is this...
Biofuels Are Not a Green Alternative to Fossil Fuels
Biofuels and bioenergy take up finite land resources at the cost of food production and carbon storage and doesn’t guarantee carbon emissions cuts.www.wri.org
''Moreover, it was far from enough to offset other GHG emissions during biofuel production from sources including fertilizer use, farm operations and fuel refining.''Biofuels turn out to be a climate mistake – here’s why
A new study challenges the longstanding view that biofuels are carbon-neutral, and asserts that in the U.S. to date, they have done more harm to the climate than gasoline.
If the production aspect has to be accounted for then so it must be also for EVs. The wind turbines in the North Sea weren't taken there by rowing boats and erected by some CO2 avoiding magic. Nor solar panels or any other electrical generating facility - they all have a carbon footprint associated with their coming into being. The less said about batteries the better...
Repeating something a thousand times doesn't make it any more true . . .
NOx are produced by any combustion that uses air as the comburant.
