The EV fact thread

[markjay]

Any vehicle or system manufactured in the Peoples Republic of China , a country which is using technology to bring other countries into its 'sphere of influence', should be viewed critically. Or maybe the former director of GCHQ is misinformed.

Japanese and South Korean car manufacturers use very little foreign parts, and their cars will typically have little or no Chinese-made parts. So if you are concerned, then buy an EV or Hybrid from Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Suzuki, Subaru, Kia, or Hyundai, and you'll be safe from Chinese spying.

(I would have included Daihatsu and Mitsubishi, but I don't think they are currently available in the UK?)

 

[poormansporsche]

How does that relate to my post which you quoted, your post I replied to (below), and can I assume that means that you agree that an EV is no different from an ICE car, when it comes to the data captured and transmitted?



If the current line of inquiry isn’t having the desired effect on the anti-EV argument, then one can always up the ante with a good old fashioned xenophobic comment to try again from a different angle.

Imagine peeling back the tin foil in your hat to find made in China underneath, brain melt

Although I personally would be more concerned if it said made in Britain

 

[Bellow]

Obviously I bow to your superior knowledge compared to Delphi ( and all the other sites saying the same stuff) and the M of T who clearly think the same as its proposed for the revised test.... and my cars live data! ... so I will leave it there.

Take this from the Delphi site:

''With less oxygen, the now diluted mixture burns slower, lowering temperatures in the combustion chamber by almost 150°C, and reducing NOx production for a cleaner, more efficient exhaust. ''

What in this context is a 'more efficient exhaust'? Does not make sense.

'With less oxygen...' Until high loads are attained the amount of oxygen is always an excess in a diesel. Displacing some of it with EGR still leaves ample for combustion so zero effective 'dilution' WRT combustion.

Also, the effect of EGR is on the pressure not temperature. Research the ratio of specific heats as to why.

The entire site riddled with errors and the internet is an amplifier of bad information - which is why the same rubbish appears on multiple sites.

I was only a car mechanic and salesman for about 20 years so obviously I know nothing either!

Thermodynamic training at BSc level. Am I to bow to you?

 

[baxlin]

mmm. This thread has become far too complicated for me, I think I’ll do as I suggested a few pages ago, and wait awhile. I might well get caught out by higher/lower (delete as appropriate) car prices, but I may not even be driving by then - I”m on my third ‘over 70’ licence after all…

Malcolm

 

[ChipChop]

How does that relate to my post which you quoted, your post I replied to (below), and can I assume that means that you agree that an EV is no different from an ICE car, when it comes to the data captured and transmitted?



If the current line of inquiry isn’t having the desired effect on the anti-EV argument, then one can always up the ante with a good old fashioned xenophobic comment to try again from a different angle.

You appear to trust the Peoples Republic of China implicity to act according to Western rules regarding data. Their track record tells me and the former director of GCHQ your trust is misplaced. A track record of a regime which functions using a social credit system reliant on intrusive tech and big data. Countering real concerns regarding the PRC's intentions to dominate the global automotive industry with cries of xenophobia or conspiracy is somewhat hollow imo.

Maybe you missed Ursula Von Der Leyen announcing an investigation in October 2023 into the PRC flooding the global market with cheap electric vehicles thanks to their huge state subsidies that keep their EV prices artificially low. Some on here seem to consider cheap PRC EV imports like the Wuhan built Dacia Spring goods news but good for who? The PRC yes. Us, i assume, in the West no.
Maybe you also missed the US treasury secretary Janet Yellen this month stating she was particularily concerned about the impact of Chinese industrial overcapacity on the US economy. And then we also have the data concerns of the former director of GCHQ.

Tell me do you really think the PRC's intention to flood the West with their cheap EV's is to help mankind 'save the planet'. Bit of a stretch no?

 

[ChipChop]

Japanese and South Korean car manufacturers use very little foreign parts, and their cars will typically have little or no Chinese-made parts. So if you are concerned, then buy an EV or Hybrid from Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Suzuki, Subaru, Kia, or Hyundai, and you'll be safe from Chinese spying.

(I would have included Daihatsu and Mitsubishi, but I don't think they are currently available in the UK?)

Good to know but i am fine with ICE thanks. Next car will be 40+ years old, German or French (fancy a CX or XM) and preferably diesel.

Wonder if the Japanese and South Korean's get accused of being xenophobes as well?

 

[ALFAitalia]

......imports like the Wuhan built Dacia Spring goods news but good for who?

Could be built in Europe soon though.....

Dacia Spring EV could be built in Europe | Autocar

Europe's cheapest electric car is currently built in China, but Dacia is considering local production

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[ChipChop]

Could be built in Europe soon though.....

Dacia Spring EV could be built in Europe | Autocar

Europe's cheapest electric car is currently built in China, but Dacia is considering local production

www.autocar.co.uk

Yes i read that. Could be but never will. Just like all the mooted UK battery manufacturing plants that never materialise. Think it is called marketing.

 

[BTB 500]

In the news today ...

• VW reports Q1 global ICE sales up 4% and BEV sales down 3%. BEV sales in Europe down 24%, partially offset by strong growth in China.
• MB reports 8% drop in EV sales.
• Tesla also reports sales down by 8%.
• BMW reports EV sales up by 28% though!
• Production of petrol Fiat Panda extended from 2027 to 2030.
• The EU has now frozen emissions targets and is considering delaying the ICE ban to allow use of synthetic fuels.

Volkswagen electric car sales plunge as Europe returns to petrol

Demand for EVs falls by 24pc amid high energy prices and rollback of subsidies

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

You appear to trust the Peoples Republic of China implicity to act according to Western rules regarding data. Their track record tells me and the former director of GCHQ your trust is misplaced. A track record of a regime which functions using a social credit system reliant on intrusive tech and big data. Countering real concerns regarding the PRC's intentions to dominate the global automotive industry with cries of xenophobia or conspiracy is somewhat hollow imo.

Maybe you missed Ursula Von Der Leyen announcing an investigation in October 2023 into the PRC flooding the global market with cheap electric vehicles thanks to their huge state subsidies that keep their EV prices artificially low. Some on here seem to consider cheap PRC EV imports like the Wuhan built Dacia Spring goods news but good for who? The PRC yes. Us, i assume, in the West no.
Maybe you also missed the US treasury secretary Janet Yellen this month stating she was particularily concerned about the impact of Chinese industrial overcapacity on the US economy. And then we also have the data concerns of the former director of GCHQ.

Tell me do you really think the PRC's intention to flood the West with their cheap EV's is to help mankind 'save the planet'. Bit of a stretch no?

Can I check, are we still talking about whether EVs more data gathering and computing power than ICE vehicles as per your post below?

However i would suggest the data gathering technologies built in to EV's are at another level compared to ICE's. Not least because they require plugging in to be fuelled whereas ICE do not. A whole other level of SMART tech.

As I said before, if the current line of inquiry isn’t having the desired effect on the anti-EV argument, then one can always up the ante with a good old fashioned xenophobic comment to try again from a different angle.

 

[SmartAmg]

Can I check, are we still talking about whether EVs more data gathering and computing power than ICE vehicles as per your post below?

God knows what we are talking about now, gave up on that, 4,409 pages ago.

 

[del320]

A surprisingly balanced, informative, and sympathetic review by Mat Watson - may even contain EV Facts!

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[ChipChop]

Can I check, are we still talking about whether EVs more data gathering and computing power than ICE vehicles as per your post below?



As I said before, if the current line of inquiry isn’t having the desired effect on the anti-EV argument, then one can always up the ante with a good old fashioned xenophobic comment to try again from a different angle.

Yes EV's are Chinas baby, ICE comparably are not. A country with a track record of using intrusive tech to bring other countries into its sphere of influence. Naive in the extreme to consider this is not an opportunity China would seize on to embed tech advantageous to the regime. It is how they operate. See their current social credit system.

The xenophobia argument holds no water. Your implicit trust in the PRC is based on what exactly?

 

[SmartAmg]

Yes EV's are Chinas baby, ICE comparably are not. A country with a track record of using intrusive tech to bring other countries into its sphere of influence. Naive in the extreme to consider this is not an opportunity China would seize on to embed tech advantageous to the regime. It is how they operate. See their current social credit system.

The xenophobia argument holds no water. Your implicit trust in the PRC is based on what exactly?

 

[BTB 500]

A surprisingly balanced, informative, and sympathetic review by Mat Watson - may even contain EV Facts!

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I watched that yesterday and thought it was a good video. If a range of 60 miles (significantly less in cold weather of course) is OK for your purposes then it's certainly very cheap motoring. Interesting also that the original smaller battery packs are known to live longer than the later ones. IIRC the 24 kWh battery in that car was down to 70% capacity after just 44k miles though, and they said fitting a replacement one of similar age/condition (if required) would cost £2,000 i.e. more than the value of the car. And £8,500 to fit a used 'upgrade' battery (the later/bigger one).

 

[ALFAitalia]

The EU has now frozen emissions targets and is considering delaying the ICE ban to allow use of synthetic fuels.

I cant see that happening......it takes load of energy to make it....only to burn it in an ICE at about 30% efficiency! Probably be greener to use petrol!!

 

[BTB 500]

and they said fitting a replacement one of similar age/condition (if required) would cost £2,000 i.e. more than the value of the car. And £8,500 to fit a used 'upgrade' battery (the later/bigger one).

As an aside I was mildly surprised that they had a ready stock of old/used Leaf batteries ready to fit. Does that suggest these cars get scrapped for reasons other than battery failure? Some must get written off in accidents of course, but I wouldn't have thought that many

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The xenophobia argument holds no water. Your implicit trust in the PRC is based on what exactly?

There are probably a range of beliefs between yours and implicit trust, so how did you conclude that I must be at the other end of that when I don’t recall making any comments about China.

PS Which is your favourite dictionary?

 

[pioneercollector]

I was surprised how little range that LEAF had, I have a small fleet of eNV200 vans that are based on the leaf and have been running them for nearly 10 years, the range ( and one of the vans has just clipped 100k ) is still around the 76 - 82 mile range. The one with the lowest mileage ( 68k ) is probably the one with the slightly diminished range. The new vans that i am now replacing the eNV200 vans with is the TOWNSTAR which appears to be a Renault body / switchgear but Nissan motors / working components ... The realistic range is around 150 on average, although it does drop a LOT in the freezing weather to around the 120 mark.

The presenter in the video seemed to imply that he used the brake pedal for regenerative battery top up .... This is incorrect, you select 'B' mode on the box and this gives you the regenerative charging when you take your foot off the accelerator pedal, and it does work.

As an aside i have just been hit with a few £1000's worth of work to replace three of our chargers at work as the regulations have changed, and you now need some form of double trip switch as you are more at risk of electrocuting yourself .... apparently.
Someone in Bristol recently electrocuted themselves on a public charger and the Council had not been inspecting them regularly ( If at all ) ..... sigh

This was moderately interesting and it involves a lovely old SEC 420 ..... comparing the old petrol and the new luxobarge EV ..... and what could work out cheaper..

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And i am not anti EV at all, They are excellent for what we do at work, but for my personal life they are not quite there yet ..... So i will keep my Evil Diesel Honda CR-V and my lovely wallet munching SL 500 !

 

[markjay]

Yes some EV's are Chinas baby...

FTFY