The EV fact thread

[GrahamT]

EV prices ARE plunging.

Here's one outfit offering 30% 0ff list !
12V Red C Class Ride On Car

 

[BTB 500]

Battery passports will be mandatory for all EVs sold in the European Union - and the UK - from February 2027.

Volvo introduces EV 'battery passport' to prove origins of materials

Every new EV sold in Europe from 2027 will require a battery passport to prove the origins of the raw material and how much of the content is recycled.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[markjay]

Volvo introduces EV 'battery passport' to prove origins of materials

Every new EV sold in Europe from 2027 will require a battery passport to prove the origins of the raw material and how much of the content is recycled.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

Clearly an anti-China move (and yes I'm aware that Volvo is owned by the Chinese).

Any reputable West European manufacturer will be very careful how they source their batteries, with or without the mandatory passport.

But it will give the Chinese a hard time when they try to flood Europe with cheap EVs.

 

[philnewmerc]

In the interests of science I took the Fiat 500e.... acelerating very hard and cruising at a speed very close to that of a Northerner in a CLS 55 AMG on an early hours run on deserted motorways.

Anyway, what caught my eye on this thread recently was the alleged increase in collisions with pedestrians with EVs. Based on my limited experience I can imagine why: the 0-20 mph acceleration of modest EVs on my local streets is as impressive as it is concerning. As a daily cyclist I have been surprised at them pulling out with faster acceleration than a northerner in a CLS55... I can see this new phenomenon being a safety statistic that shows up soon in EV pedestrian collisions.

 

[markjay]

Anyway, what caught my eye on this thread recently was the alleged increase in collisions with pedestrians with EVs. Based on my limited experience I can imagine why: the 0-20 mph acceleration of modest EVs on my local streets is as impressive as it is concerning. As a daily cyclist I have been surprised at them pulling out with faster acceleration than a northerner in a CLS55... I can see this new phenomenon being a safety statistic that shows up soon in EV pedestrian collisions.

Possibly, assuming that the data shows a higher rate of collisions with EVs that are accelerating from standstill compared ICE car collisions. However, I am not sure that we have the data to carry out this analysis.

 

[BTB 500]

Anyway, what caught my eye on this thread recently was the alleged increase in collisions with pedestrians with EVs. Based on my limited experience I can imagine why: the 0-20 mph acceleration of modest EVs on my local streets is as impressive as it is concerning. As a daily cyclist I have been surprised at them pulling out with faster acceleration than a northerner in a CLS55... I can see this new phenomenon being a safety statistic that shows up soon in EV pedestrian collisions.

I think another factor is that in car parks etc. people tend to give an ICE with the engine running a wide berth as it's obvious it might move. Whereas AFAIK even the latest EVs don't emit any sound until they're actually in motion? I had a Tesla suddenly reverse out at me as I was walking through a car park on Sunday.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think another factor is that in car parks etc. people tend to give an ICE with the engine running a wide berth as it's obvious it might move. Whereas AFAIK even the latest EVs don't emit any sound until they're actually in motion? I had a Tesla suddenly reverse out at me as I was walking through a car park on Sunday.

Must have been a Tesla without those 360 degree cameras.

How hard did she hit you?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Clearly an anti-China move (and yes I'm aware that Volvo is owned by the Chinese).
Any reputable West European manufacturer will be very careful how they source their batteries, with or without the mandatory passport.
But it will give the Chinese a hard time when they try to flood Europe with cheap EVs.

Another explanation is that it's an inevitable bureaucratic control on the quality, sourcing, and pollution / Eco-status of a major component.

Fundamentally it's a control on that component rather than a whole car.

If the EU wants to stick a 100% import duty on a Chinese manufactured MG4 or Korean Ioniq 5 to protect Volkswagen, they'll just do so. (The Ioniq 5 is the better car, after all)

But it's a global industry. The EU knows that German SUV's are often made in the States, so there's a need to keep an eye on where the battery was made as much as where the car was assembled.

Batteries: deal on new EU rules for design, production and waste treatment | News | European Parliament

On Friday, Parliament and Council reached a provisional agreement to overhaul EU rules on batteries and take into account technological developments and future challenges.

www.europarl.europa.eu

 

[markjay]

...If the EU wants to stick a 100% import duty on a Chinese manufactured MG4 or Korean Ioniq 5 to protect Volkswagen, they'll just do so. (The Ioniq 5 is the better car, after all)...

Starting a tariff war with the Chinese isn't in the best interest of Europe's car industry, given that German luxury marques are in great demand in China. The battery passport is a cunning way to avoid an all out trade war with China.

 

[BTB 500]

How hard did she hit you?

I was too fast for her.

 

[BIGDOG]

I think another factor is that in car parks etc. people tend to give an ICE with the engine running a wide berth as it's obvious it might move. Whereas AFAIK even the latest EVs don't emit any sound until they're actually in motion? I had a Tesla suddenly reverse out at me as I was walking through a car park on Sunday.

I thought that Tesla were the ones that made a UFO sound when reversing.

Could be disabled or an old one maybe?

 

[Bellow]

I thought that Tesla were the ones that made a UFO sound when reversing.

Maybe Tesla should make the farting noise external. To prevent the same sound being emitted by pedestrians....

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Starting a tariff war with the Chinese isn't in the best interest of Europe's car industry, given that German luxury marques are in great demand in China. The battery passport is a cunning way to avoid an all out trade war with China.

Quite.

Best pop over to Flanders and have a chat with Ursula.

After Biden announced that he's putting a 100% tariff on EV's imported from China last month

the Brussels evaluation of a similar tariff barrier is that looking more urgent.

Biden, of course, doesn't actually import Chinese EV's but Europe certainly does.

China won't 'sit back and watch' if EU slaps tariffs on electric cars

Brussels worries that the steady rise in imported Chinese electric vehicles could trigger an irreparable loss of competitiveness in the growing sector. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I thought that Tesla were the ones that made a UFO sound when reversing.
Could be disabled or an old one maybe?

The Tesla 3 I had certainly made a noise going both backward and forward.

But the XC40 EV that I'm driving at the moment doesn't make a sound - backwards or forward.

 

[BIGDOG]

The Tesla 3 I had certainly made a noise going both backward and forward.

But the XC40 EV that I'm driving at the moment doesn't make a sound - backwards or forward.

What do you think of the XC40?

Full electric or hybrid?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Anyway, what caught my eye on this thread recently was the alleged increase in collisions with pedestrians with EVs. Based on my limited experience I can imagine why: the 0-20 mph acceleration of modest EVs on my local streets is as impressive as it is concerning. As a daily cyclist I have been surprised at them pulling out with faster acceleration than a northerner in a CLS55... I can see this new phenomenon being a safety statistic that shows up soon in EV pedestrian collisions.

The very high performance of even modest EVs like a lowly FIAT 500e - at slow speeds - is so easily accessible that it will cause accidents with people, vehicles and road furniture simply because most drivers aren’t prepared for the instant rapid acceleration available to them. An EV is like a cheetah in peak condition ready to dash but looks and feels like Bagpuss lay in front of the fire.

Prior to EVs that level of performance (in relative terms) required a serious performance car. Both the high cost and the need to build up through progressively quicker and quicker cars, meant that hardly anyone had a car with that level of performance, those that did used it infrequently, and they had been getting accustomed to quick cars for years or even decades.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The very high performance of even modest EVs like a lowly FIAT 500e - at slow speeds - is so easily accessible that it will cause accidents with people, vehicles and road furniture simply because most drivers aren’t prepared for the instant rapid acceleration available to them. An EV is like a cheetah in peak condition ready to dash but looks and feels like Bagpuss lay in front of the fire.

Prior to EVs that level of performance (in relative terms) required a serious performance car. Both the high cost and the need to build up through progressively quicker and quicker cars, meant that hardly anyone had a car with that level of performance, those that did used it infrequently, and they had been getting accustomed to quick cars for years or even decades.

Here’s one I made earlier:

EV Acceleration + Idiot - Experience = Dangerous? | Driving/Incidents/Roadrage

Please don’t confuse this with an anti-EV thread, because it’s not (and I’m not). Also apologies that this will be a long post, but I think the context is key. Today I was sat first in the queue at a set of traffic lights, in the left of two lanes. To the right of me - in the second of the two...

forums.mbclub.co.uk

 

[clk320x]

The very high performance of even modest EVs like a lowly FIAT 500e - at slow speeds - is so easily accessible that it will cause accidents with people, vehicles and road furniture simply because most drivers aren’t prepared for the instant rapid acceleration available to them. An EV is like a cheetah in peak condition ready to dash but looks and feels like Bagpuss lay in front of the fire.

Prior to EVs that level of performance (in relative terms) required a serious performance car. Both the high cost and the need to build up through progressively quicker and quicker cars, meant that hardly anyone had a car with that level of performance, those that did used it infrequently, and they had been getting accustomed to quick cars for years or even decades.

Not sure about other EVs but with Tesla most non-enthusiasts drive the car in ‘chill’ mode which makes it more like a ‘normal’ car acceleration wise.

Though at the moment I’m out in Dubai driving a Ford Explorer, and I’m finding the throttle is a lot more ‘jumpy’ on that than my EV. Weird.

 

[philnewmerc]

Had to go to that there Londinium again recently. Driving back I accelerated away from yet another 50 zone up to 95, just for the childish thrill of the shove in the back and the whining growl, then slowed to the speed limit - Tesla Model 3 right on my bumber! Discombobulating tbh . Though he did pull off shortly after, to recharge* perhaps .
But I can see Dazzler's point; I somehow doubt he would be an enthusiast, probably just on autopilot (literally or metaphorically) .

*Joke: see my thumbnail

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Good to see that an extra ten million passengers flew through Heathrow last year.

(81 million, up from 71 million)

That should nicely offset all the CO2 reductions from the move to EV

Heathrow Airport records highest ever passenger total