The EV fact thread

[ALFAitalia]

There is no benefit that an EV brings over its predecessor

lol.... I don't even like Evs but can see that's nonsence!!

• Environmental impact: EVs don't emit pollutants and are more environmentally friendly.
  
  
  
• Energy efficiency: EVs are 85–90% energy efficient, compared to 20% for traditional vehicles.
  
  
  
• Fuel savings: EVs are more than 70% cheaper to run than petrol or diesel cars for home chargers.
  
  
  
• Less noise pollution: EVs are quieter because they don't have a combustion process.
  
  
  
• Less maintenance required: EVs have fewer parts and are therefore usually cheaper to maintain.
  
  
  
• Charging at home: You can conveniently charge your EV at home, saving time and energy.
  
  
  
• Performance: EVs have faster acceleration.
  
  
  
• Tax breaks and benefits: EVs may qualify for tax breaks and benefits, such as lower or zero vehicle excise duty (VED) and cleaner vehicle discounts.
  
  
  
• Free parking and use of bus lanes: Some towns and cities offer free parking and use of bus lanes for EVs.
  
  
  
• Improved air quality: EVs contribute to improving air quality in cities by reducing greenhouse gas emissions and other pollutants.

Other than that.....what have the EVs ever done for us???

 

[markjay]

There is no benefit that an EV brings over its predecessor - bar the dubious improvement of air quality in cities - so your comparison is somewhat misplaced.

Huh? Why 'dubious'? EVs have zero exhaust emissions, don't they? Or are you now arguing that there's nothing wrong with a lungful of freshly-brewed EU6 Diesel exhaust fumes to start the day...

 

[markjay]

lol.... I don't even like Evs but can see that's nonsence!!

• Environmental impact: EVs don't emit pollutants and are more environmentally friendly.
  
  
  
• Energy efficiency: EVs are 85–90% energy efficient, compared to 20% for traditional vehicles.
  
  
  
• Fuel savings: EVs are more than 70% cheaper to run than petrol or diesel cars for home chargers.
  
  
  
• Less noise pollution: EVs are quieter because they don't have a combustion process.
  
  
  
• Less maintenance required: EVs have fewer parts and are therefore usually cheaper to maintain.
  
  
  
• Charging at home: You can conveniently charge your EV at home, saving time and energy.
  
  
  
• Performance: EVs have faster acceleration.
  
  
  
• Tax breaks and benefits: EVs may qualify for tax breaks and benefits, such as lower or zero vehicle excise duty (VED) and cleaner vehicle discounts.
  
  
  
• Free parking and use of bus lanes: Some towns and cities offer free parking and use of bus lanes for EVs.
  
  
  
• Improved air quality: EVs contribute to improving air quality in cities by reducing greenhouse gas emissions and other pollutants.

Other than that.....what have the EVs ever done for us???

Heresy! You shall be taken to a place of execution and... actually, where exactly is Tyburn's Tree these days?

 

[Bellow]

lol.... I don't even like Evs but can see that's nonsence!!

• Environmental impact: EVs don't emit pollutants and are more environmentally friendly.

When we see the true impact of mining the materials for them and of the coal burned in China to produce them, a different picture will emerge. That, and carbon neutral fuels being a possibility for ICE - but ignored.

• 
  
  
  
• Energy efficiency: EVs are 85–90% energy efficient, compared to 20% for traditional vehicles.

That is but one conversion efficiency - and to quote it as valid requires an explanation of why it is superior - and not just a number.

• 
  
  
  
• Fuel savings: EVs are more than 70% cheaper to run than petrol or diesel cars for home chargers.

Only for those who can charge at home. It may be the case that that is impossible for 50% of car users. Those that have to rely on public chargers may find running costs in excess of ICE. And the small matter of up-front purchase price of an EV being considerably higher than for ICE.

• 
  
  
  
• Less noise pollution: EVs are quieter because they don't have a combustion process.

Tyre noise is the most significant noise any vehicle emits. EVs are no quieter than ICE at real speed and at low speed have to emit a noise.

• 
  
  
  
• Less maintenance required: EVs have fewer parts and are therefore usually cheaper to maintain.

True, but ICE servicing isn't as onerous as some imply - until we get to the abomination that is SCR that is.

• 
  
  
  
• Charging at home: You can conveniently charge your EV at home, saving time and energy.

Only for those who can charge at home. It may be the case that that is impossible for 50% of car users.

• 
  
  
  
• Performance: EVs have faster acceleration.

You can endow any car - EV or ICE - with whatever performance is in the brief. EVs however tend not to fare as well as ICE at continuous high-speed cruising.

• 
  
  
  
• Tax breaks and benefits: EVs may qualify for tax breaks and benefits, such as lower or zero vehicle excise duty (VED) and cleaner vehicle discounts.
  
  
  
• Free parking and use of bus lanes: Some towns and cities offer free parking and use of bus lanes for EVs.

Political decisions that are nothing to with ICE.

• 
  
  
• Improved air quality: EVs contribute to improving air quality in cities by reducing greenhouse gas emissions and other pollutants.

Potentially cleaner in cities yes, but ICE is possible with zero NOx and PM (the harmful to health pollutants).

Other than that.....what have the EVs ever done for us???

Handed a western manufacturing industry to China which funds Russia buying its oil to fund its war against Ukraine which we in turn are funding - while inevitably increasing our dependence on China for our critical transportation needs.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Oh dear.....

 

[Bellow]

Huh? Why 'dubious'? EVs have zero exhaust emissions, don't they? Or are you now arguing that there's nothing wrong with a lungful of freshly-brewed EU6 Diesel exhaust fumes to start the day...

Here's a photograph of a car in a LEZ. A pity the camera didn't have a wider lens. Then we'd see even more of the ships who's diesel fumes are drifting across the city oblivious to the LEZ. Fund raising and nothing else is all that's being achieved here. You could have every car an EV and there's still going to pollution from diesels.

 

[markjay]

Here's a photograph of a car in a LEZ. A pity the camera didn't have a wider lens. Then we'd see even more of the ships who's diesel fumes are drifting across the city oblivious to the LEZ. Fund raising and nothing else is all that's being achieved here. You could have every car an EV and there's still going to pollution from diesels.

View attachment 161914

So your point is that if you're smoking one pack of cigarettes a day, you might as well smoke two?

Also, the fumes from the boats will disperse, but the Diesel van will continue its polluting journey around the city. Or are you are suggesting that the LEZ should be suspended for the stretch of road running near the pier?

But for sure, I wouldn't want to live or work across from that pier, if the boats are moored with their Diesel engines running all day.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Yes, i-phones brought benefits beyond landline capabilities and the internet the same over printed material. There is no benefit that an EV brings over its predecessor - bar the dubious improvement of air quality in cities - so your comparison is somewhat misplaced.

Sigh, Science has led to the EV transition ONLY because of global Climate Change.

If you're unaware of Climate Change, talk to a secondary school child. John Prescott was the deputy Prime Minister who set us on this path 27 years ago

https://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol

Electrification will lead to reduced CO2 creation, greater energy efficiency, and reduced wealth transfer to absurdly rich, politically problematic nations, like Saudi Arabia, Russia and the USA. A 16 year old can explain this if you're unfamiliar.

And .... it will also lead to improved air quality in city centres for those stupid enough to choose to live and work in city centres.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Heresy! You shall be taken to a place of execution and... actually, where exactly is Tyburn's Tree these days?

It's at Marble Arch, where it always has been.

But now it's a plate in the pavement, rather than a freestanding wooden frame.

 

[ChipChop]

"Britain paying the highest electricity prices in the world". Apart from EV owners of course. They pay next to nothing when charging their cars at home. Could it be someone in charge has their priorities wrong? See "crippling domestic manufacturers".

Britain paying highest electricity prices in the world

Cost of power for industrial businesses now four times more expensive than in US

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Bellow]

So your point is that if you're smoking one pack of cigarettes a day, you might as well smoke two?

Not what I said.

Also, the fumes from the boats will disperse, but the Diesel van will continue its polluting journey around the city. Or are you are suggesting that the LEZ should be suspended for the stretch of road running near the pier?

It is not a diesel van but one running on LPG with non existent NOx and PM emissions. It has to pay, the huge ships belch all day long with impunity. Not that that's the concern. It's the futility of pretending the air can ever be clean with that going on. And the credibility of adding costs onto motorists for no meaningful improvement in air quality.

But for sure, I wouldn't want to live or work across from that pier, if the boats are moored with their Diesel engines running all day.

Probably you don't. But a percentage of those ships will be to install and maintain the offshore wind farms that your car and vision of future mobility depends on.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

"Britain paying the highest electricity prices in the world". Apart from EV owners of course. They pay next to nothing when charging their cars at home. Could it be someone in charge has their priorities wrong? See "crippling domestic manufacturers".

Britain paying highest electricity prices in the world

Cost of power for industrial businesses now four times more expensive than in US

www.telegraph.co.uk

It does NOT say "Britain is paying the highest electricity prices in the world."

Read the article. It's talking about "industrial prices." And shows that the UK's industrial prices are 50% higher than the average of its Western competitors. Why? Because we have deliberately chosen NOT to use cheap Nuclear power because of political pressures, and because we are now investing in new low cost energy sources such as solar and wind farms. Why is the States so cheap? Because it has nuclear, oil and gas.

Why do UK EV owners get low prices? Because they charge their vehicles at night, when there is tremendous spare capacity in the system. If they charge during the day, they pay the same rate as any other consumer.

Why does heavy industry pay high prices? Because they're the ones that create the need for expensive power at peak times, so they pay a price set by the most expensive power usage.

It's all explained in the article, if you can be bothered to read it to the end.

 

[Bellow]

Sigh, Science has led to the EV transition ONLY because of global Climate Change.

If you're unaware of Climate Change, talk to a secondary school child. John Prescott was the deputy Prime Minister who set us on this path 27 years ago

https://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol

Electrification will lead to reduced CO2 creation, greater energy efficiency, and reduced wealth transfer to absurdly rich, politically problematic nations, like Saudi Arabia, Russia and the USA. A 16 year old can explain this if you're unfamiliar.

And .... it will also lead to improved air quality in city centres for those stupid enough to choose to live and work in city centres.

Save your patronising for someone who will fall on their knees for you.
Suggesting I am unaware of climate change really is as dumb assed stupid as it gets.

 

[ChipChop]

It does NOT say "Britain is paying the highest electricity prices in the world."

Read the article. It's talking about "industrial prices." And shows that the UK's industrial prices are 50% higher than the average of its Western competitors. Why? Because we have deliberately chosen NOT to use cheap Nuclear power because of political pressures, and because we are now investing in new low cost energy sources such as solar and wind farms. Why is the States so cheap? Because it has nuclear, oil and gas.

Why do UK EV owners get low prices? Because they charge their vehicles at night, when there is tremendous spare capacity in the system. If they charge during the day, they pay the same rate as any other consumer.

Why does heavy industry pay high prices? Because they're the ones that create the need for expensive power at peak times, so they pay a price set by the most expensive power usage.

It's all explained in the article, if you can be bothered to read it to the end.

We are now investing in new low cost energy sources. That are really expensive. Some investment. Still a certain two tier Sir thinks it will eventually reap rewards. For his mates in Davos me thinks.

 

[markjay]

"Britain paying the highest electricity prices in the world". Apart from EV owners of course. They pay next to nothing when charging their cars at home. Could it be someone in charge has their priorities wrong? See "crippling domestic manufacturers".

Britain paying highest electricity prices in the world

Cost of power for industrial businesses now four times more expensive than in US

www.telegraph.co.uk

I highly doubt that the low tax on electricity when charging an EV at home is by design.... more likely it's a fluke that the government doesn't know (yet...) how to overcome, because at current you cannot distinguish between electricity for an EV and electricity for domestic use. My guess is that there will be some legislation in future that will force the use of special chargers at home that will allow the government to tax the s**t out of electricity for EVs.

This is obvious from the fact that VAT on domestic electricity is only 5%, but when I charge my EV on public chargers I pay the full 20% VAT - the government makes no concessions where they can distinguish EV use from domestic use.

The point about electricity being expensive in the UK is interesting - this was certainly my experience when travelling across France and Switzerland last spring. At current, I pay between 45p and 53p for electricity from the slow 5 kW public charger outside my house. On the French autoroute services, I paid 49 cent (~40p) for electricity from a superfast Ionity 350 kW charger..... go figure.

 

[markjay]

We are now investing in new low cost energy sources. That are really expensive. Some investment. Still a certain two tier Sir thinks it will eventually reap rewards. For his mates in Davos me thinks.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Save your patronising for someone who will fall on their knees for you.
Suggesting I am unaware of climate change really is as dumb assed stupid as it gets.

Oh, really? Then why did you make this dumb assed comment:

"There is no benefit that an EV brings over its predecessor - bar the dubious improvement of air quality in cities - so your comparison is somewhat misplaced."

Had you forgotten that Climate Change is THE reason for the rapid enforced EV transition that the Labour Government AND the EU signed us into ?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The point about electricity being expensive in the UK is interesting - this was certainly my experience when travelling across France and Switzerland last spring. At current, I pay between 45p and 53p for electricity from the slow 5 kW public charger outside my house. On the French autoroute services, I paid 49 cent (~40p) for electricity from a superfast Ionity 350 kW charger..... go figure.

Not difficult. Electricity in France is cheap because of France's massive investment in Nuclear over the last 50 years. Nuclear creates 70% of French electricity.

(Obviously Central London roadside charging will always be more expensive than the rest of the UK)

EV charging in Europe and the UK: where is cheapest to charge?

The cost of charging an electric car in public remains one of the biggest talking points for EV owners, especially when planning longer journeys.

evpowered.co.uk

 

[markjay]

Oh, really? Then why did you make this dumb assed comment:

"There is no benefit that an EV brings over its predecessor - bar the dubious improvement of air quality in cities - so your comparison is somewhat misplaced."

Had you forgotten that Climate Change is THE reason for the rapid enforced EV transition that the Labour Government AND the EU signed us into ?

I agree that the transition from one form of propulsion to another will not make a huge difference to the planet - as I said, we need to built less private cars, and drive them less.

And, while analysts may show that the overall carbon footprint of an EV is lower than that of an ICE car, it is still a significant footprint.

Personally, I am in favour of EVs, because they make sense - clean air in city centres, and less sound pollution. In addition, they are mechanically less complicated than ICE cars and cheaper to service.

But as for the environment... no, we won't save it by moving to EVs. My view.

 

[markjay]

Not difficult. Electricity in France is cheap because of France's massive investment in Nuclear over the last 50 years. Nuclear creates 70% of French electricity.

(Obviously Central London roadside charging will always be more expensive than the rest of the UK)

EV charging in Europe and the UK: where is cheapest to charge?

The cost of charging an electric car in public remains one of the biggest talking points for EV owners, especially when planning longer journeys.

evpowered.co.uk

View attachment 161926

It's interesting to see the cost in Switzerland - I only charged twice on the motorways over there and paid much less - but this may have been a coincidence. What surprises me here is that Switzerland has hydro... you'd have thought that electricity will be cheap.

The low cost of electricity in Norway goes some way to explain why every other car on the road is a Tesla....