The EV fact thread

[SmartAmg]

Tax, tax, tax.... it's what (some) governments do.

What, you mean there missing out on screwing you just that bit more. Shame.

 

[markjay]

What, you mean there missing out on screwing you just that bit more. Shame.

Even before considering what the government's policy regarding tax on electricity for EVs might be, at current there's an illogical discrepancy where VAT on electricity from home chargers is charged at the domestic rate of 5%, while VAT on electricity from public chargers is rated 20%.

Clearly, the low VAT on electricity from home chargers is a fluke, and not by design, I.e. if the government wanted to apply a lower VAT rate on electricity for EVs in general, then they would have charged 5% VAT also on electricity from public chargers.

And so, I think that the government will try and 'correct' it at some point.

 

[BTB 500]

And so, I think that the government will try and 'correct' it at some point.

Very likely, if for no other reason than trying to offset falling revenue from tax/duty on diesel & unleaded.

 

[SmartAmg]

Even before considering what the government's policy regarding tax on electricity for EVs might be, at current there's an illogical discrepancy where VAT on electricity from home chargers is charged at the domestic rate of 5%, while VAT on electricity from public chargers is rated 20%.

Clearly, the low VAT on electricity from home chargers is a fluke, and not by design, I.e. if the government wanted to apply a lower VAT rate on electricity for EVs in general, then they would have charged 5% VAT also on electricity from public chargers.

And so, I think that the government will try and 'correct' it at some point.

Then, long may the "fluke" continue.

 

[SmartAmg]

Very likely, if for no other reason than trying to offset falling revenue from tax/duty on diesel & unleaded.

Unfortunately, your probably right. God forbid, us mere Mortals, get away with owt.

 

[markjay]

Then, long may the "fluke" continue.

Granny cables at the ready!

 

[SmartAmg]

Granny cables at the ready!

Me Granny did mine, yesterday.

 

[Bellow]

Another reason that granny cable charging may have a short life is that every designated charging point is internet connected meaning supply can be throttled to suit grid inadequacies (generation and distribution). Granny cable charging is remote form that so there's the possibility of large numbers of people charging - albeit at lower currents - for prolonged periods simultaneously when the grid isn't up to the task - and without any means of rectification.
Add the unfairness of miserly taxation for the EV user compared to ICE user when fossil fuels are still used for electricity generation. Given that the poorest aren't in a position to buy EVs then this is a regressive taxation regime - and the public have a right to object to it. As it is, I doubt that many are enamoured by the tax incentives already doled out in pursuit of the electrification dream. Continued freebies start to look like taking the piss.

 

[SmartAmg]

[QUOTE="Bellow,
Add the unfairness of miserly taxation for the EV user compared to ICE user when fossil fuels are still used for electricity generation. Given that the poorest aren't in a position to buy EVs then this is a regressive taxation regime - and the public have a right to object to it. As it is, I doubt that many are enamoured by the tax incentives already doled out in pursuit of the electrification dream. Continued freebies start to look like taking the piss.
[/QUOTE]

So as I suspected, you really don't like EV users, getting away with anything, do you?

 

[Bellow]

[QUOTE="Bellow,
Add the unfairness of miserly taxation for the EV user compared to ICE user when fossil fuels are still used for electricity generation. Given that the poorest aren't in a position to buy EVs then this is a regressive taxation regime - and the public have a right to object to it. As it is, I doubt that many are enamoured by the tax incentives already doled out in pursuit of the electrification dream. Continued freebies start to look like taking the piss.

So as I suspected, you really don't like EV users, getting away with anything, do you?
[/QUOTE]
Sod all about me. It's the wider public you need to look out for. Why not ask them what they think of taxpayers money subsidising what has a far from certain future and currently is nothing like as 'green' as portrayed? Shirkers will be seen for what they are.

 

[SmartAmg]

So as I suspected, you really don't like EV users, getting away with anything, do you?

Sod all about me. It's the wider public you need to look out for. Why not ask them what they think of taxpayers money subsidising what has a far from certain future and currently is nothing like as 'green' as portrayed? Shirkers will be seen for what they are.
[/QUOTE]

Rubbish.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Bur still WAY more green (and less polluting) than petrol and derv ........or synthetic's or hydrogen come to that.

 

[markjay]

Sod all about me. It's the wider public you need to look out for. Why not ask them what they think of taxpayers money subsidising what has a far from certain future and currently is nothing like as 'green' as portrayed? Shirkers will be seen for what they are.

I have a very long list of things that taxpayers money is being spent on, and which I find infuriating. My neighbours' very many grandchildren from their several daughters all of which are single mothers with children from 'unknown' fathers (very fashionable it seems), is one example, however I have no time to rant about it because I need to work harder so that they can get a larger (free) house (each) and a sh1tload of other 'subsidies'. I suck it up, though.

 

[190]

Sod all about me. It's the wider public you need to look out for. Why not ask them what they think of taxpayers money subsidising what has a far from certain future.....

It's not so much EV owners that the wider public should have an issue with but the incompetence of politicians who have known for a decade about this problem of how to tax EV's and have just kicked the can down the road. 10 years on we are no nearer a solution on how to tax the energy that EV's use. I predict another 10 years before they get their act together and come up with a workable solution and the reason it has taken so long will be the cost of implementation which will be a big drain on that tax income.

It's not anti EV to acknowledge that EV taxation has been very generous and that for the most part relatively wealthy first adopters have received the benefit.

 

[SmartAmg]

[QUOTE="190

It's not anti EV to acknowledge that EV taxation has been very generous and that for the most part relatively wealthy first

adopters have received the benefit.
[/QUOTE]

If it's not anti-EV. Then it must be, the old chestnut. That somebody's getting something cheaper than me, and I don't like it. Personally I don't give a shite what someone else is getting cheaper or more than me, never have.
And I suspect that goes for a lot of people.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It's not so much EV owners that the wider public should have an issue with but the incompetence of politicians who have known for a decade about this problem of how to tax EV's and have just kicked the can down the road. 10 years on we are no nearer a solution on how to tax the energy that EV's use. I predict another 10 years before they get their act together and come up with a workable solution and the reason it has taken so long will be the cost of implementation which will be a big drain on that tax income.

It's not anti EV to acknowledge that EV taxation has been very generous and that for the most part relatively wealthy first adopters have received the benefit.

Low/No cost VED is not an EV thing. For many years cars with low emissions benefited from low/no cost VED too.

 

[SmartAmg]

Low/No cost VED is not an EV thing. For many years cars with low emissions benefited from low/no cost VED too.

Agreed. And nobody batted an eye. But because EVs and EV owners are getting something, that others are not, there's hell to pay. And that in a nutshell is what it's all about.

 

[190]

Low/No cost VED is not an EV thing. For many years cars with low emissions benefited from low/no cost VED too.

It was the tax on the energy that EV's use that I referred to rather than VED which is sorted for EV's from next April.

Assuming a pay per mile scheme is eventually used to tax the energy that EV's use, I wonder if that will also be applied to ICE's and if so will we still have to pay VED. It would certainly be a fair and equitable outcome to have a single tax for car use based on miles driven. I'm not holding my breath for that as an outcome though, especially given the shambles that has been made of VED over the years.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It was the tax on the energy that EV's use that I referred to rather than VED which is sorted for EV's from next April.

I mentioned no/low cost VED as it was a deliberate scheme to reduce taxation as incentive for those wishing to choose low CO2 vehicles, and at the same time increase taxation for those wishing to choose high CO2 vehicles.

That spread is significant - currently the difference is between £0 VED for cars emitting less than 100 g/km up to £771.75 for cars emitting more than 255 g/km. Variable VED was much much easier to implement than variable duty at point of sale.

Source: Vehicle tax rates

There’s a ready made solution for EVs in the medium term.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Assuming a pay per mile scheme is eventually used to tax the energy that EV's use, I wonder if that will also be applied to ICE's and if so will we still have to pay VED. It would certainly be a fair and equitable outcome to have a single tax for car use based on miles driven.

It’s a very equitable outcome from the perspective of low mileage users, and even more so for those with the luxury of multiple cars.

It’s a much less equitable outcome from the perspective of high mileage users, and even more for those with a single car.

Many who cover high mileages do so out of necessity, rather than choice, so per mile charging could hit hardest those who can least afford it.