The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

Read past the headline and you’ll see that’s for rapid and ultra-rapid chargers, so 50 kW and 150 kW or more respectively.

56p / kWh is the current UK average cost for under 50 kW chargers, and 80p / kWh is the average for 50 kW plus:

Zapmap Price Index - Average weighted price to charge on the public network - Zapmap

Using data from 700,000 charging sessions and the latest PAYG prices, Zapmap calculates the average weighted cost to charge on the public network for both the low powered and high powered rapid and ultra rapid networks.

www.zap-map.com

The final paragraph you deleted in my post you quoted is the key piece of information. Most people don’t need to use a rapid charger unless they’re travelling on a long journey,

Under 50 kW is still more expensive than fuelling many (most?) petrol ICE cars.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Under 50 kW is still more expensive than fuelling many (most?) petrol ICE cars.

Quite possibly, I’ve not done the maths. The reason for my posts was not to say it’s less expensive to run an EV, it was simply to point out that it’s not the 89p per kW rate that is often quoted.

Shell VPower at motorways service stations is cery expensive and rarely used by the vast majority of drivers, and as far as I’ve seen it’s seldom used as the basis of calculation on the cost of running ICE.

However with an EV the most expensive provider in the most expensive location is often referred to. Just like how ICE drivers avoid using Shell VPower at motorway services, EV drivers avoid Osprey.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

56p / kWh is the current UK average cost for under 50 kW chargers, and 80p / kWh is the average for 50 kW plus:

View attachment 162875

Zapmap Price Index - Average weighted price to charge on the public network - Zapmap

Using data from 700,000 charging sessions and the latest PAYG prices, Zapmap calculates the average weighted cost to charge on the public network for both the low powered and high powered rapid and ultra rapid networks.

www.zap-map.com

Under 50 kW is still more expensive than fuelling many (most?) petrol ICE cars.

Did you read the article you linked to?

“What is the average price of charging an electric car on the public charging network?

The weighted average PAYG price to charge an electric car on the public charging network in September 2024 was 56p/kWh on slow/fast chargers and 80p/kWh for rapid/ultra-rapid chargers.

Using an average efficiency EV* this equates to 17 pence per mile and 24 pence per mile respectively

The PAYG price is the price EV drivers can pay at a charge point network without a membership or a special deal.

Some charge point operators will offer time-bound, location specific or partner specific promotional deals, and so for many EV drivers the actual amount they pay will be lower than the PAYG price. Thus we should expect that the actual average price paid for EV charging is lower than the prices above.“

The membership point is an important one. For example members of BP Pulse receive a 20% discount on rates, and members of Tesla receive a 16% discount. Membership fees may apply.

The 17p and 24p per mile could be improved significantly with the members discount, reducing it to 13.6p and 19.2p excluding membership fees - many don’t pay, and not linked to mileage.

It could be improved further still because it assumes 3.3 and 3.4 mi/kWh which is quite pessimistic. It would be very easy to improve on that by 20%, making it 10.9p and 15.4p.

Repayment of capital, increased utilisation and increased competition will bring the cost of public charging further, but it’s not quite the $hit show the tabloid headlines portray in reality.

 

[BTB 500]

Quite possibly, I’ve not done the maths. The reason for my posts was not to say it’s less expensive to run an EV, it was simply to point out that it’s not the 89p per kW rate that is often quoted.

Shell VPower at motorways service stations is cery expensive and rarely used by the vast majority of drivers, and as far as I’ve seen it’s seldom used as the basis of calculation on the cost of running ICE.

However with an EV the most expensive provider in the most expensive location is often referred to. Just like how ICE drivers avoid using Shell VPower at motorway services, EV drivers avoid Osprey.

Zapmap's own comparison (on the page I linked to) gives a current annual cost of £1810 for an EV without home charging, versus £1410 for an equivalent ICE with the same usage profile.

That's using 80% slow (lamp post) charging and 20% en-route rapid charging for the EV. This is the data they use:

 

[BTB 500]

Did you read the article you linked to?

Yes - see above.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Zapmap's own comparison (on the page I linked to) gives a current annual cost of £1810 for an EV without home charging, versus £1410 for an equivalent ICE with the same usage profile.

That's using 80% slow (lamp post) charging and 20% en-route rapid charging for the EV. This is the data they use:

View attachment 162879

I think Zapmap have (rightly) been pessimistic with the scenario they’ve used as the basis for this, ie no membership discount. very low miles per kWh, 100% public charging and 1 in 5 miles is rapid or ultra rapid charging.

I doubt many now - or even in the fullness of time - would match that profile, but it’s right for them to be pessimistic as it deflects the inevitable. Taking the membership discount into account it’s the same as ICE at £1448.

Interesting that they use 12.8% for transfer losses, which is much less than the often quoted up to 25% or 35%.

 

[Bellow]

The PAYG price is the price EV drivers can pay at a charge point network without a membership or a special deal.

Some charge point operators will offer time-bound, location specific or partner specific promotional deals, and so for many EV drivers the actual amount they pay will be lower than the PAYG price. Thus we should expect that the actual average price paid for EV charging is lower than the prices above.“

The membership point is an important one. For example members of BP Pulse receive a 20% discount on rates, and members of Tesla receive a 16% discount. Membership fees may apply.

The 17p and 24p per mile could be improved significantly with the members discount, reducing it to 13.6p and 19.2p excluding membership fees - many don’t pay, and not linked to mileage.

It could be improved further still because it assumes 3.3 and 3.4 mi/kWh which is quite pessimistic. It would be very easy to improve on that by 20%, making it 10.9p and 15.4p.

Repayment of capital, increased utilisation and increased competition will bring the cost of public charging further, but it’s not quite the $hit show the tabloid headlines portray in reality.

So much for EV convenience when getting a half decent rate on charging involves the ball ache of subscription - just the sort of shit despised elsewhere where annual renewal is a bare knuckle fight with excrement.
Rock up, fill up, **** off. Yep, ICE has it!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

So much for EV convenience when getting a half decent rate on charging involves the ball ache of subscription - just the sort of shit despised elsewhere where annual renewal is a bare knuckle fight with excrement.
Rock up, fill up, **** off. Yep, ICE has it!

It’s not difficult or time consuming, you just register with a few brief details and then click a button in the app to start charging and the payment is made automatically when I’ve finished charging.

It’s just like the app I use for ICE cars, in my case Shell. Regjster, click, finish automatically pay and receive a loyalty incentive, albeit the discount is with even purchase with a subscription.

Just like ICE you can pay anonymously with contactless to.

 

[Dryce]

It’s not difficult or time consuming, you just register with a few brief details and then click a button in the app to start charging and the payment is made automatically when I’ve finished charging.

It's hassle that may be minor to some - but nevertheless a disproportionate hassle to others.

Why should you need an app or to 'subscribe' for a basic service like refuelling a car ?

If I can turn up at any normal filling station and just tap my card (or insert and enter a PIN) for that transaction why can't energy vendors for EVs just do the same ?

 

[SmartAmg]

[QUOTE="Dryce

If I can turn up at any normal filling station and just tap my card (or insert and enter a PIN) for that transaction why can't energy vendors for EVs just do the same ?
[/QUOTE]

They can.

 

[Dryce]

They can.

Refer back to the comment by @Bellow

So much for EV convenience when getting a half decent rate on charging involves the ball ache of subscription -

 

[SmartAmg]

Refer back to the comment by @Bellow

No subscription needed for Instavolt at most Macdonalds or most Tescos. And probably others I don't know about. Just tap your card, plug in, go for a coffee, tap your card again, drive off. Job done. Simple's.

 

[ChipChop]

If I can turn up at any normal filling station and just tap my card (or insert and enter a PIN) for that transaction why can't energy vendors for EVs just do the same ? They can.

And the extra charge for paying contactless as a guest not via an app is?

Pricing | bp pulse

Discover EV charging tariffs on the go from bp pulse, whether you're a subscriber, or using pay-as-you-go or contactless to charge your electric car

www.bppulse.co.uk

GRIDSERVE | Our pricing

View our current EV charging pricing across the GRIDSERVE Electric Highway.

www.gridserve.com

 

[SmartAmg]

And the extra charge for paying contactless as a guest not via an app is?

Pricing | bp pulse

Discover EV charging tariffs on the go from bp pulse, whether you're a subscriber, or using pay-as-you-go or contactless to charge your electric car

www.bppulse.co.uk

GRIDSERVE | Our pricing

View our current EV charging pricing across the GRIDSERVE Electric Highway.

www.gridserve.com

No App, No crap, No subscription. Just pay for what you've used. Job done, simple's.

 

[ChipChop]

No App, No crap, No subscription. Just pay for what you've used. Job done, simple's.

And at a higher rate. Penalised for not using an app/ subscribing. See BP Pulse.

 

[SmartAmg]

And at a higher rate. Penalised for not using an app/ subscribing. See BP Pulse.

Probably. Certainly instavolt.
But think Tescos is not to bad. I'll very rarely need them anyway.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It's hassle that may be minor to some - but nevertheless a disproportionate hassle to others.

Why should you need an app or to 'subscribe' for a basic service like refuelling a car ?

If I can turn up at any normal filling station and just tap my card (or insert and enter a PIN) for that transaction why can't energy vendors for EVs just do the same ?

You can, I even say so in the final paragraph

It’s not difficult or time consuming, you just register with a few brief details and then click a button in the app to start charging and the payment is made automatically when I’ve finished charging.

It’s just like the app I use for ICE cars, in my case Shell. Regjster, click, finish automatically pay and receive a loyalty incentive, albeit the discount is with even purchase with a subscription.

Just like ICE you can pay anonymously with contactless to.

It’s just like ICE. If you want go use an app and receive incentives, then you can. If you want to pay contactless, then you can.

If an app is too much hassle, and you prefer not having the significant discount, the just pay by card, the choice is yours.

 

[BTB 500]

Interesting that they use 12.8% for transfer losses, which is much less than the often quoted up to 25% or 35%.

ADAC give 30% as a maximum total charging loss (presumably from their vehicle tests). 20% is more commonly mentioned as a ballpark figure though - I'm pretty sure that's roughly what our own Mactech found he was getting. I don't know of anyone other than ADAC who provide hard data on charging losses.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

And the extra charge for paying contactless as a guest not via an app is?

Pricing | bp pulse

Discover EV charging tariffs on the go from bp pulse, whether you're a subscriber, or using pay-as-you-go or contactless to charge your electric car

www.bppulse.co.uk

GRIDSERVE | Our pricing

View our current EV charging pricing across the GRIDSERVE Electric Highway.

www.gridserve.com

There’s no extra charge for not using the app. Just like Shell, BP, Tesco, IKEA or any other retailer who offers loyalty incentive schemes, you receive a discount or other offer if you use their loyalty app.

 

[markjay]

56p / kWh is the current UK average cost for under 50 kW chargers, and 80p / kWh is the average for 50 kW plus:

View attachment 162875

Zapmap Price Index - Average weighted price to charge on the public network - Zapmap

Using data from 700,000 charging sessions and the latest PAYG prices, Zapmap calculates the average weighted cost to charge on the public network for both the low powered and high powered rapid and ultra rapid networks.

www.zap-map.com

Under 50 kW is still more expensive than fuelling many (most?) petrol ICE cars.

Don't know about national averages.... but this is from the British Gas website: