The EV fact thread

[markjay]

This is not a promotion from BP Pulse, it’s a benefit offered by their partners, so you won’t find it on the BP Pulse website.

The eligibility criteria are as simple as being a customer of a partner to BP Pulse as I said in this post last night.

I think that ChipCop raises a fair point, that we are pushed to use first online services and then apps, in ways that benefit the service providers rather than the consumers.

For example, my local Council has done away with the 'One stop shop' they used to have near where I live, and since then everything is done online or by email, and some things can take a very long time to resolve, where previously the matter could have been finalised there and then in a face-to-face meeting. Then, you have the issue of older people needing to submit claims for welfare benefits online. The disappearing bank branches is another example, etc.

I fully understand that it reduces operating costs, but the benefit to the consumer is far from tangible. And I can certainly see older EV drivers not being able to unlock the discounts offered by energy providers to app users.

 

[TC350]

Not yet being in the market for an EV (or indeed any change of vehicle), I've only glossed over the plethora of posts on the subject of charging costs. But those discussions have caused me to consider an as yet not discussed advantage of EVs:

With the apparent chasm in costs between home and public charging, I can hope this will encourage EV owners to park on their driveways instead of the marginally more convenient roadside immediately outside their front doors.

I live on a development that was planned during the time when Two-Jags-John Prescott was Deputy PM. He pushed for local authority planners to dictate to developers to limit car use (for the sake of the environment ) by making things inconvenient for them. So narrow roads and garages behind the properties. But it made no difference to the number of cars per property. Neither did it persuade people to get fitter by walking and cycling more. A typical ill-thought government plan. (Although, on the plus side, we also have lots of lakes, walks and green spaces.)

People are inherently lazy, resulting in a high percentage of drivers parking their cars conveniently at the front of their houses in the road instead of a few paces further away at the back. At a very rough estimate I would guess at around 50% of people on this development parking in the road when they have room behind their homes or even in driveways next to their homes. Combined with the narrow roads I mentioned earlier, we now have daily chaos.

With a lot more EVs around, hopefully many of those who currently block our roads will cotton on to needing to charge them at lower cost, and park on their land next to their houses. Of course there will still be the morons dragging an extension lead across the path, but I can still dream.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not yet being in the market for an EV (or indeed any change of vehicle), I've only glossed over the plethora of posts on the subject of charging costs. But those discussions have caused me to consider an as yet not discussed advantage of EVs:

With the apparent chasm in costs between home and public charging, I can hope this will encourage EV owners to park on their driveways instead of the marginally more convenient roadside immediately outside their front doors.

I live on a development that was planned during the time when Two-Jags-John Prescott was Deputy PM. He pushed for local authority planners to dictate to developers to limit car use (for the sake of the environment ) by making things inconvenient for them. So narrow roads and garages behind the properties. But it made no difference to the number of cars per property. Neither did it persuade people to get fitter by walking and cycling more. A typical ill-thought government plan. (Although, on the plus side, we also have lots of lakes, walks and green spaces.)

People are inherently lazy, resulting in a high percentage of drivers parking their cars conveniently at the front of their houses in the road instead of a few paces further away at the back. At a very rough estimate I would guess at around 50% of people on this development parking in the road when they have room behind their homes or even in driveways next to their homes. Combined with the narrow roads I mentioned earlier, we now have daily chaos.

With a lot more EVs around, hopefully many of those who currently block our roads will cotton on to needing to charge them at lower cost, and park on their land next to their houses. Of course there will still be the morons dragging an extension lead across the path, but I can still dream.

Sounds like it’s quite specific to the development where you live and others like it, as it’s not often that people prefer to park on the road if there’s space available on the driveway.

I suspect you’re right though, unless they have lower cost or more convenient options to charge elsewhere, then they’ll probably charge at home and therefore on the driveway.

That said, most people don’t cover enough miles to have to charge every day/night, and the average person might only need to charge once per week, so that may not be enough to break the habit.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think that ChipCop raises a fair point, that we are pushed to use first online services and then apps, in ways that benefit the service providers rather than the consumers.

For example, my local Council has done away with the 'One stop shop' they used to have near where I live, and since then everything is done online or by email, and some things can take a very long time to resolve, where previously the matter could have been finalised there and then in a face-to-face meeting. Then, you have the issue of older people needing to submit claims for welfare benefits online. The disappearing bank branches is another example, etc.

I fully understand that it reduces operating costs, but the benefit to the consumer is far from tangible. And I can certainly see older EV drivers not being able to unlock the discounts offered by energy providers to app users.

A challenge in all aspects of modern life, and EV use is possibly one of the least impactful as the elderly have a readily available choice of using contactless payment or driving an ICE car.

Other online-only services you mention may have a greater impact, if there isn’t a telephone number to call. However I suspect were some way away from withdrawing telephone options for core services.

It certainly gets more challenging to adopt to new technology as we get older - and I do’ t believe that’s down to the technology - I believe that it’s about our mindset to change as we age.

Using BP Pulse as an example - given that it’s proven to be a hot topic for some members - if you don’t want to use the app then you can use a card/fob with a barcode/QR like Tesco and Shell.

So for now there are alternatives, but for how long who knows?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

A couple of genuine and practical questions for EV owners that I'd need answers to if I was to buy one.

My regular longer trip is 100 miles over the M62 to York. The M62 being the highest motorway in the UK there are several steep climbs. Even though you gain on the way down my current petrol consumption is still 10% higher overall than it is on flat motorway trips.

How would that terrain impact on an EV's claimed range ?

If an EV's range was compromised by all that climbing hills, I doubt that I would be able to get there and back without recharging.

Although the cost of recharging is trivial, If I was doing it on a regular basis I wouldn't expect it to be free. If you recharge with a granny cable at a private dwelling, does the car provide you with a figure for the total KWh consumed in order to financially compensate the owner of the socket you are plugged in to ?

It’s difficult to be scientific however I would say that you won’t recover all of the extra energy consumed climbing the hill, but you’ll recover a fair chunk. Every car, driver, road, hill and journey is different, and sometimes there is no descent on the other side.

For example much of the West Midlands is on a plateau so you will drive up an incline driving in and that may be more or less steep than the decline on the way out again, so you let ability to recover the energy may be constrained.

Regarding the cost of recharging, it depends on the car. You could easily estimate it though based upon the stat/end percentage, battery capacity and cost per unit of electricity. For how often it happens it may be easier to buy them a drink/dinner.

 

[markjay]

A challenge in all aspects of modern life, and EV use is possibly one of the least impactful as the elderly have a readily available choice of using contactless payment or driving an ICE car.

Other online-only services you mention may have a greater impact, if there isn’t a telephone number to call. However I suspect were some way away from withdrawing telephone options for core services.

It certainly gets more challenging to adopt to new technology as we get older - and I do’ t believe that’s down to the technology - I believe that it’s about our mindset to change as we age.

Using BP Pulse as an example - given that it’s proven to be a hot topic for some members - if you don’t want to use the app then you can use a card/fob with a barcode/QR like Tesco and Shell.

So for now there are alternatives, but for how long who knows?

Some organisations do not provide a customer care telephone number. Others provide a telephone number that doesn't actually get you to speak to a human. Others obfuscate the process by making the telephone number nigh-on impossible to find, then make you navigate through a maze of options before you can get to talk to someone, going back to the start if you made the wrong choice (it can feel like playing a game of snakes and ladders). Others will make you wait hours in a queue (happened to me with Royal Mail - 2 hours in the queue - and Barcklays Bank - 3 hours).

 

[Bellow]

It certainly gets more challenging to adopt to new technology as we get older - and I do’ t believe that’s down to the technology - I believe that it’s about our mindset to change as we age.

Even if that is true - frankly I doubt that is universally so - what gives corporations the notion that the public is happy to jump through their hoops for their gain?
A business that puts its customers ahead of its own petty agenda is the one that deserves to succeed.

 

[TC350]

Some organisations do not provide a customer care telephone number. Others provide a telephone number that doesn't actually get you to speak to a human. Others obfuscate the process by making the telephone number nigh-on impossible to find, then make you navigate through a maze of options before you can get to talk to someone, going back to the start if you made the wrong choice (it can feel like playing a game of snakes and ladders). Others will make you wait hours in a queue (happened to me with Royal Mail - 2 hours in the queue - and Barcklays Bank - 3 hours).

Hopefully not veering away from EVs, but I hate using the phone so will do my utmost to find alternative means of communicating/paying for services. Telephones (and all the paraphernalia that makes them possible) kept me employed for 36 years and have provided me with a comfortable pension for the last 28 years, but I still don't like using them. In my advancing years I like them even less because my hearing is failing and I need to lip read or have subtitles to get the best understanding. On the majority of occasions that I've found myself with no option other than to talk over the phone, I've struggled to understand a broad accent (not just but often Indian) and had to give up a few times. On the other hand, there have been a few instances where the person at the other end has been wonderfully articulate, and I've always thanked them for being so. But they're rare beasts.

So give me email to communicate with customer services every time, not least because it provides me with evidence of what's been said/agreed/promised.

 

[markjay]

Hopefully not veering away from EVs, but I hate using the phone so will do my utmost to find alternative means of communicating/paying for services. Telephones (and all the paraphernalia that makes them possible) kept me employed for 36 years and have provided me with a comfortable pension for the last 28 years, but I still don't like using them. In my advancing years I like them even less because my hearing is failing and I need to lip read or have subtitles to get the best understanding. On the majority of occasions that I've found myself with no option other than to talk over the phone, I've struggled to understand a broad accent (not just but often Indian) and had to give up a few times. On the other hand, there have been a few instances where the person at the other end has been wonderfully articulate, and I've always thanked them for being so. But they're rare beasts.

So give me email to communicate with customer services every time, not least because it provides me with evidence of what's been said/agreed/promised.

I don't disagree, and having been in IT for most of my working life, I don't personally have an issue with online services and apps, however I can see how some other older people might find it difficult, and I think that we should be careful not to make EVs an unfriendly proposition for older people because of heavy reliance on apps.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Even if that is true - frankly I doubt that is universally so - what gives corporations the notion that the public is happy to jump through their hoops for their gain?
A business that puts its customers ahead of its own petty agenda is the one that deserves to succeed.

If customers really aren’t happy with the service they receive then they’ll find an alternative provider, and in most cases there are alternatives - the local authority is perhaps one of the few exceptions.

If too many customers vote with their feet then those businesses will either need to adapt to what their customers want or go out of business. It’s natural selection for businesses.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I don't disagree, and having been in IT for most of my working life, I don't personally have an issue with online services and apps, however I can see how some other older people might find it difficult, and I think that we should be careful not to make EVs an unfriendly proposition for older people because of heavy reliance on apps.

I’m sure there will be plenty who cannot use apps or online services, however i’m not sure they account for the majority of older people.

Parents and in-laws are in their late 70s and 80s, and aunties and uncles are older. They can do everything I can do on my phone.

My Mom says that she doesn’t know how to do things on her phone, however I have access to her mailbox and I can see she’s doing everything I am.

I dare say that those in their 90s now may struggle, however I suspect only a very small number drive, and fewer still drive an EV.

I’m sure contactless payments will be around long enough for older drivers to drive an EV without using an app should they need to.

 

[Bellow]

If customers really aren’t happy with the service they receive then they’ll find an alternative provider, and in most cases there are alternatives - the local authority is perhaps one of the few exceptions.

If too many customers vote with their feet then those businesses will either need to adapt to what their customers want or go out of business. It’s natural selection for businesses.

That, relies on there being at least one provider prepared to operate differently. But that's not how it happens. They move in lockstep knowing so long as no other company wavers their methods will become the norm.

The latest 'ruse' that is shaping up to be the new normal is the 'handling charge'. Fantastic, I'm paying £9,99 for someone to put an item smaller than a folded cigarette into an envelope. Choice? Sure, I can order it from the USA and pay £20.00 in carriage. At least that carriage cost is real.

 

[Bellow]

I’m sure there will be plenty who cannot use apps or online services, however i’m not sure they account for the majority of older people.

I don't have a smart phone. Where I live, the mobile signal is so poor as to be unworkable. I'm not the only one in a rural setting where the signal is so poor and it's obvious the mobile providers have given up on the blackspots. What do people thus affected do when apps are required for everything - especially mobility in a rural setting?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The latest 'ruse' that is shaping up to be the new normal is the 'handling charge'. Fantastic, I'm paying £9,99 for someone to put an item smaller than a folded cigarette into an envelope. Choice? Sure, I can order it from the USA and pay £20.00 in carriage. At least that carriage cost is real.

I can’t say that I’ve noticed handling charges in the way you describe.

 

[Bellow]

I can’t say that I’ve noticed handling charges in the way you describe.

Try 'administration fee' - same thing.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I don't have a smart phone. Where I live, the mobile signal is so poor as to be unworkable. I'm not the only one in a rural setting where the signal is so poor and it's obvious the mobile providers have given up on the blackspots. What do people thus affected do when apps are required for everything - especially mobility in a rural setting?

Well if it’s an EV charger then it will either be in an area with mobile signal or have an Internet connection through other means. If the former then the app will work as expected. If the latter then use WiFi or offline capability. If all else fails then pay contactless.

 

[Bellow]

Well if it’s an EV charger then it will either be in an area with mobile signal or have an Internet connection through other means. If the former then the app will work as expected. If the latter then use WiFi or offline capability. If all else fails then pay contactless.

Point #1. I cannot have a wallbox charger at home because it requires internet connectivity by law.
Point #2. I have to buy into a smart phone and contract solely to 'fuel' a car (it is nothing more than an ornament at home without a signal). Or pay the higher price of card payment as without a smart phone there is no contactless payment.

Progress? Nope. This is the kind of shit that makes people hanker for the 'good ol' days' and some bad political decision ensue from that mindset. In all change you have to take the people with you and there is little evidence of that or that anyone involved in electrification of personal mobility understands or is even acquainted with the concept.

As an example of where we - or I -am. A low value internet purchase requires I submit within 5 minutes the security code sent to me by text. That text will arrive the following day - if at all.

 

[poormansporsche]

Bloody EVs bursting into flames all over the show

Blimey - Not a EV fire .....

Was absolute chaos on Monday

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Point #1. I cannot have a wallbox charger at home because it requires internet connectivity by law.
Point #2. I have to buy into a smart phone and contract solely to 'fuel' a car (it is nothing more than an ornament at home without a signal). Or pay the higher price of card payment as without a smart phone there is no contactless payment.

Point #1: Don’t you have WiFi at home either? If not then a three PIN mains socket is all most people really need. Of course that may not be practical for very high mileage users in very remote areas, as 12 hours charge offers ~110 miles range.

Point #2: Perhaps some schemes are app only - I don’t know - however BP Pulse, issue a card with a barcode to keep in your wallet on on your keyring, so you don’t need to have a smartphone nor a mobile connection for the discounted rate.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

As an example of where we - or I -am. A low value internet purchase requires I submit within 5 minutes the security code sent to me by text. That text will arrive the following day - if at all.

Check the settings of the website you’re buying from as some will allow you to disable multifactor authentication (albeit not a good move from a security point of view), and some will allow other forms of multifactor authentication like sending the code by email, or using an authentication app.