The EV fact thread

[markjay]

Point #1. I cannot have a wallbox charger at home because it requires internet connectivity by law...

I didn't know that.

 

[markjay]

...As an example of where we - or I -am. A low value internet purchase requires I submit within 5 minutes the security code sent to me by text. That text will arrive the following day - if at all.

Not having Internet and not having GSM signal, are two different issues.

While I agree that websites that only allow 2FA by text message (i.e. no option for authentication via email, or via Google Authenticator app) are indeed an issue for people living in areas with no GSM coverage, the issue is limited because mobile phone apps will still work perfectly fine over the Internet connection and without GSM signal.

Going back to EVs, I struggle to think what issues you'll have charging an EV in a location where there's no GSM signal?

 

[Bellow]

Not having Internet and not having GSM signal, are two different issues.

I have internet - but it is via the land line.

Going back to EVs, I struggle to think what issues you'll have charging an EV in a location where there's no GSM signal?

How does a wall box charger communicate with the 'net if not by GSM? Are smart meters (which I don't have) not the same?

 

[Bellow]

I didn't know that.

Been that way for a few years now. It is wide open for throttling and identifying EV recharging for taxation purposes. When the VAT is raised to 20% as it surely must, I really can't see inefficient (we just cannot afford to squander 15-30%) 3-pin charging surviving. When it disappears from the car - game over for the cheapest of charging.

 

[Bellow]

Point #1: Don’t you have WiFi at home either?

I have internet via landline. That's it.

If not then a three PIN mains socket is all most people really need. Of course that may not be practical for very high mileage users in very remote areas, as 12 hours charge offers ~110 miles range.

When I am out, a typical day's mileage is around 160 miles. Not every day so it would be manageable. But see my other post re how long 3-pin charging will endure. I suspect its days are numbered.

Point #2: Perhaps some schemes are app only - I don’t know - however BP Pulse, issue a card with a barcode to keep in your wallet on on your keyring, so you don’t need to have a smartphone nor a mobile connection for the discounted rate.

Just checked and the nearest BP Pulse charger is 50 miles away in Inverness. Useless.

 

[Bellow]

Check the settings of the website you’re buying from as some will allow you to disable multifactor authentication (albeit not a good move from a security point of view), and some will allow other forms of multifactor authentication like sending the code by email, or using an authentication app.

By the time I arrive at that payment/security screen I'm stuck there. Either the code arrives in time (rare occurrence) or the payment is aborted.
I've tried getting the text code sent to my landline but that has worked only the once.

 

[SmartAmg]

Been that way for a few years now. It is wide open for throttling and identifying EV recharging for taxation purposes. When the VAT is raised to 20% as it surely must, I really can't see inefficient (we just cannot afford to squander 15-30%) 3-pin charging surviving. When it disappears from the car - game over for the cheapest of charging.

And I presume that will make you Happy?

 

[TC350]

I’m sure there will be plenty who cannot use apps or online services, however i’m not sure they account for the majority of older people.

Parents and in-laws are in their late 70s and 80s, and aunties and uncles are older. They can do everything I can do on my phone.

I'm in my very late 70s and I have no problem using apps - but a career in high tech probably helps a bit there. However, what I hate is having to download, install and use an app for something I may only want once. Things like car parks and taxis.

 

[TC350]

By the time I arrive at that payment/security screen I'm stuck there. Either the code arrives in time (rare occurrence) or the payment is aborted.
I've tried getting the text code sent to my landline but that has worked only the once.

I feel your pain. My online activity is mainly from the Mac in my study. I'm fortunate in having a big house but I don't carry my mobile around with me at home, so by the time I've got up off my **** and located it then returned to my study, the code is often no longer valid.

I've also tried getting the code sent to the landline phone in my study that accepts texts, but the algorithm at the other end appears to reject landline numbers.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I have internet via landline. That's it.

When I am out, a typical day's mileage is around 160 miles. Not every day so it would be manageable. But see my other post re how long 3-pin charging will endure. I suspect its days are numbered.

Just checked and the nearest BP Pulse charger is 50 miles away in Inverness. Useless.

As long as you can broadcast a WiFi signal from the Internet connection associated with your landline, then a dedicated fast home charger will be able to connect to the Internet.

Depending upon how long you’re at home for and the capacity of the battery - even 160 miles might be doable with a 3 PIN socket - however a fast home charger would make it very doable.

That said if you regular cover those distances in remote areas then the case for an EV isn’t as compelling as it might be if you covered 50 or 100 miles per day in a less remote area.

Although it’s often said that we’re being forced to switch to EVs, we’re not really, and those who genuinely can’t make an EV work for their situation have many years of ICE motoring ahead of them.

Aren’t there any nearer chargers than 50 miles away. I would always seek out a Tesla Supercharger if possible over any other charging station - always spot on and relatively inexpensive.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

By the time I arrive at that payment/security screen I'm stuck there. Either the code arrives in time (rare occurrence) or the payment is aborted.
I've tried getting the text code sent to my landline but that has worked only the once.

Which online retailers are worst affected? As I mentioned earlier, most have the ability to turn MFA/2FA on or off, and some allow a different method such as email or authentication service.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I'm in my very late 70s and I have no problem using apps - but a career in high tech probably helps a bit there. However, what I hate is having to download, install and use an app for something I may only want once. Things like car parks and taxis.

I agree, I don’t think age is a barrier to the adoption of technology in the slightest.

My parents are the least tech savvy people in the world, neither have ever used a computer, and neither are educated in the slightest. They don’t have a problem either.

I find that the thing which people in general - and especially “older” people struggle with is security - the need for complex and unique passwords, multi factor authentication and the like.

I don't think it’s because they can’t deal with it, they just generally don’t see it as necessary and therefore get frustrated about having to do it, which then causes problems logging in.

That applies to many people though, just seems to frustrate people more the older they are.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Try 'administration fee' - same thing.

I’ve seen that at car supermarket places but not noticed it anywhere else. Just like when you start playing “Yellow Car” you notice how many yellow cars are about, no doubt I’ll see the admin fee all over the place now you have mentioned it.

 

[markjay]

I have internet - but it is via the land line.

How does a wall box charger communicate with the 'net if not by GSM? Are smart meters (which I don't have) not the same?

Cars, wall boxes, and smart meters commutate over GSM, but not over the Internet.

Yes, you can connect to the Internet over GSM, but this is not what these devices do.

The GSM network routes the IP traffic to the vendor's servers over a private network.

So, yes, not having GSM signal is indeed a problem, but not having Internet, is not an issue.

 

[TC350]

I agree, I don’t think age is a barrier to the adoption of technology in the slightest.

My parents are the least tech savvy people in the world, neither have ever used a computer, and neither are educated in the slightest. They don’t have a problem either.

I find that the thing which people in general - and especially “older” people struggle with is security - the need for complex and unique passwords, multi factor authentication and the like.

I don't think it’s because they can’t deal with it, they just generally don’t see it as necessary and therefore get frustrated about having to do it, which then causes problems logging in.

That applies to many people though, just seems to frustrate people more the older they are.

YUP. I totally understand the need for security, but get really frustrated when I get Apple to suggest a very secure password but then it forgets what it is (or loses it somewhere). I have absolutely no hope of remembering the suggestion so I have to go through the “forgotten password” rigmarole to log in. By which time I’ve forgotten what I want to log in for!

I find it a lot easier for my bank accounts to just use the password ************. Well, that’s what it looks like on my screen.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

But see my other post re how long 3-pin charging will endure. I suspect its days are numbered.

Maybe.

You’re one of the members I’d most like to treat to a drink and bite to eat with most, and if 3 pin chargers are not allowed before 2035 then you can pick the restaurant. Deal?

My personal belief is that 3 pin charging at home will become less practical over time as battery capacity increases, and so the Government will just let it fizzle out as it will become smaller and smaller loss of revenue.

I have been wrong plenty of times before though.

Edited to add: I think it’s more likely that VAT will be increased on domestic electricity than it will be to outlaw 3-pin charging. That would be political suicide until voters “forget” the dramatic increase in energy prices recently.

 

[ALFAitalia]

@TC350

Use the word "Incorrect".....then when you get it wrong or forget the pooter will say "Your password is incorrect" as a helpful reminder....sorted!!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

YUP. I totally understand the need for security, but get really frustrated when I get Apple to suggest a very secure password but then it forgets what it is (or loses it somewhere). I have absolutely no hope of remembering the suggestion so I have to go through the “forgotten password” rigmarole to log in. By which time I’ve forgotten what I want to log in for!

I find it a lot easier for my bank accounts to just use the password ************. Well, that’s what it looks like on my screen.

As long as you accept that Apple saves you password then it will be in there.

What I’ve experienced myself is that Apple doesn’t usually automatically populate your password if you’re using the password within an app, unless app is designed to hand off the authentication stage to their website and return you to the app (even if it appears to be all within the app). This is because Apple remembers the website login or registration domain and URL. Authentication through an app can mask this and so you need to select it from the list of saved passwords.

A good example of when this might happen is if you make a purchase through an app, and then choose to pay using PayPal. Even though Apple might know your PayPal password it doesn’t realise it’s PayPal as it’s being presented in the retailers app rather than in the browser. My son’s school app does exactly this and I go through the above every week paying for things, topping up his lunch account, etc.

A terrible description but hopefully that’s helpful.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I’ve just done a quick calculation. The average age of my “regularly used” cars is 14 years - which isn’t a great surprise given that my favourite era for cars is 2003-18, and 14 years old is right in the middle of that period.

I’d drive any of them any time and any distance, and that won’t change over night. That means that even if cars with ICE engines are withdrawn in 2035 then I could drive cars of the same age or newer until 2040.

So unless very unlikely factors beyond my control happen in the meantime - like all petrol stations closing, ICE being made illegal, or the relative cost of running ICE cars increasing dramatically - then I could drive cars as I do today for another 25 years.

I’ll worry about it closer to the time.

 

[TC350]

As long as you accept that Apple saves you password then it will be in there.

What I’ve experienced myself is that Apple doesn’t usually automatically populate your password if you’re using the password within an app, unless app is designed to hand off the authentication stage to their website and return you to the app (even if it appears to be all within the app). This is because Apple remembers the website login or registration domain and URL. Authentication through an app can mask this and so you need to select it from the list of saved passwords.

A good example of when this might happen is if you make a purchase through an app, and then choose to pay using PayPal. Even though Apple might know your PayPal password it doesn’t realise it’s PayPal as it’s being presented in the retailers app rather than in the browser. My son’s school app does exactly this and I go through the above every week paying for things, topping up his lunch account, etc.

A terrible description but hopefully that’s helpful.

Thanks. I think I understood that.

What doesn’t help is when my wife wants to access something on her iPhone?? but it doesn’t work, so she tries using my AppleID. But she doesn’t know my password, so she changes it

It’s worse than having joint bank accounts