The EV fact thread

[190]

I don't have a smart phone. Where I live, the mobile signal is so poor as to be unworkable. I'm not the only one in a rural setting where the signal is so poor and it's obvious the mobile providers have given up on the blackspots. What do people thus affected do when apps are required for everything - especially mobility in a rural setting?

I'm in the same boat with an unusable mobile signal but I do have a smart phone on a pay as you go basis, it just doesn't get used much for calls. But it's become essential for all the 2 factor authentication one time pass codes I seem to need to log in to anything and everything these days. Some have alternative methods of providing 2 factor and some don't. I think the security thing has gone overboard, there was a time when once your device had been authenticated then 2 factor wasn't required.

 

[markjay]

I'm in the same boat with an unusable mobile signal but I do have a smart phone on a pay as you go basis, it just doesn't get used much for calls. But it's become essential for all the 2 factor authentication one time pass codes I seem to need to log in to anything and everything these days. Some have alternative methods of providing 2 factor and some don't. I think the security thing has gone overboard, there was a time when once your device had been authenticated then 2 factor wasn't required.

It has not gone overboard, it has simply been updated to meet current threats.

(We had one just today... a customer was hacked in spite of having 2FA... we found the loophole and closed it, but it was there)

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think the security thing has gone overboard, there was a time when once your device had been authenticated then 2 factor wasn't required.

It’s only overboard until you realise the implications of your personal information being compromised. It really is best avoided for the sake of a few taps or looking for your phone. Unfortunately some people only realise when it’s too late.

Whilst vulnerabilities can still occur even with MFA/2FA - as MJ mentioned a moment ago - it’s relatively rare, however the number of real world threats that MFA/2FA stops is huge, and probably the best thing you can do to protect yourself.

To help senior executives take security seriously I used to hand out envelopes with printed cards, listing passwords, children’s names, date of birth, mother’s maiden name, home address, photos of their house, photo of their en-suite bathroom, etc.

It was a great way of getting them to look past their iPads and genuinely engage in conversation on security. Another one at conferences was to put on the big screen a long list of passwords and not say anything. You could hear the gulps from the stage.

 

[Bellow]

I've also tried getting the code sent to the landline phone in my study that accepts texts, but the algorithm at the other end appears to reject landline numbers.

When I do that, the phone rings but it's silent when I pick up. As much use as a chocolate tampon.

 

[Bellow]

As long as you can broadcast a WiFi signal from the Internet connection associated with your landline, then a dedicated fast home charger will be able to connect to the Internet.

I guess that would work - with the landlord's approval. And assuming the lease lasts long enough to justify it.

Depending upon how long you’re at home for and the capacity of the battery - even 160 miles might be doable with a 3 PIN socket - however a fast home charger would make it very doable.

For the size of vehicle I need for deliveries - touch and go with a 3-pin.

Although it’s often said that we’re being forced to switch to EVs, we’re not really, and those who genuinely can’t make an EV work for their situation have many years of ICE motoring ahead of them.

But what will the quality of the vehicles be without new replenishing the stock. Brits aint as resilient as Cubans!

Aren’t there any nearer chargers than 50 miles away. I would always seek out a Tesla Supercharger if possible over any other charging station - always spot on and relatively inexpensive.

I highlighted the BP Pulse as it was suggested it was app free. There are chargers nearer but I've no idea the payment arrangements. The nearest one is two miles away and there's absolutely sod all to do in the vicinity while being hooked up to it. The prospect of sitting there for hours leaves me cold. And for those who keep telling me to go to cinema, get a coffee, blah, blah, blah. When I want to do any of those things I'll do them. Do them because I want to when I want to - not because my car makes me. Screw that.

 

[Bellow]

Maybe.

You’re one of the members I’d most like to treat to a drink and bite to eat with most, and if 3 pin chargers are not allowed before 2035 then you can pick the restaurant. Deal?

Could be some way off....

My personal belief is that 3 pin charging at home will become less practical over time as battery capacity increases, and so the Government will just let it fizzle out as it will become smaller and smaller loss of revenue.

Agreed, increased battery capacity could make it impractical - especially for those who rely on their car more. Within that there is the possibility that manufacturers will conclude the same and just delete the facility. Presumably - given the inefficiency in the process - the OEM are already reluctant to commit to it more fully.

I have been wrong plenty of times before though.

Edited to add: I think it’s more likely that VAT will be increased on domestic electricity than it will be to outlaw 3-pin charging. That would be political suicide until voters “forget” the dramatic increase in energy prices recently.

I really don't think VAT on domestic electricity can be raised significantly without the risk of public unrest. On the other hand, the previous administration mandated internet connectivity for wall box chargers which would make dual VAT tariffs easily possible. Along with throttling. Ignoring the revenue aspect, a system is in place that at least 50% of its function is to enable throttling. Conversely 3-pin charging when many are using it is an extended load period that cannot be controlled externally. So, 3-pin is less efficient, as close to revenue free (for the treasury) as possible, and uncontrollable re grid considerations. Maybe I will be choosing the restaurant after all...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I highlighted the BP Pulse as it was suggested it was app free. There are chargers nearer but I've no idea the payment arrangements. The nearest one is two miles away and there's absolutely sod all to do in the vicinity while being hooked up to it. The prospect of sitting there for hours leaves me cold. And for those who keep telling me to go to cinema, get a coffee, blah, blah, blah. When I want to do any of those things I'll do them. Do them because I want to when I want to - not because my car makes me. Screw that.

The reason people mention coffee, cinema and shopping is because the mindset of recharging an EV is different to refuelling an ICE. Charge when you park rather than refill when you’re low.

With ICE most people wait until they need to refuel and then refuel as much as they can - which is usually to either fill the tank or put in as much as they can afford (depending upon circumstances).

With an EV, unless travelling very long distances then it’s best to just top-up when the car is idle, wherever that might be. You just take advantage of the car being parked near a charger.

Supermarkets, shopping centres, cinemas, restaurants, fast food restaurants, hotels, public car parks, and more often have chargers, but perhaps less so in remote areas.

Thinking about where I’ve been this week, if I hadn’t charged at home then I could have charged at Doctor’s surgery (20m), Pharmacy (10m), bakery (10m), Starbucks (20m), MIL’s house (2h).

That doesn’t sound like much charging time, but I’ve not been anywhere else this week, so it would have added more charge than I actually used travelling between those locations.

Next week I’ll do a 400 mile round trip and it will probably be 10+ hours travel time. I’ll probably stop 3 or more likely 4 times at motorway services for 20-30 minutes, enough to get there and back.

For those that don’t stop whilst travelling then that could be an inconvenience, but for those who do then it doesn’t change what they would already be doing and so is transparent.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

But what will the quality of the vehicles be without new replenishing the stock. Brits aint as resilient as Cubans!

We might have to become more resourceful if we really really want to keep old cars on the road!

 

[Bellow]

The reason people mention coffee, cinema and shopping is because the mindset of recharging an EV is different to refuelling an ICE. Charge when you park rather than refill when you’re low.

With ICE most people wait until they need to refuel and then refuel as much as they can - which is usually to either fill the tank or put in as much as they can afford (depending upon circumstances).

With an EV, unless travelling very long distances then it’s best to just top-up when the car is idle, wherever that might be. You just take advantage of the car being parked near a charger.

Supermarkets, shopping centres, cinemas, restaurants, fast food restaurants, hotels, public car parks, and more often have chargers, but perhaps less so in remote areas.

Thinking about where I’ve been this week, if I hadn’t charged at home then I could have charged at Doctor’s surgery (20m), Pharmacy (10m), bakery (10m), Starbucks (20m), MIL’s house (2h).

That doesn’t sound like much charging time, but I’ve not been anywhere else this week, so it would have added more charge than I actually used travelling between those locations.

Next week I’ll do a 400 mile round trip and it will probably be 10+ hours travel time. I’ll probably stop 3 or more likely 4 times at motorway services for 20-30 minutes, enough to get there and back.

For those that don’t stop whilst travelling then that could be an inconvenience, but for those who do then it doesn’t change what they would already be doing and so is transparent.

I guess at least some of my attitude to this is from much of my working life involving driving. There's never been time to be sitting around or spending more time than is absolutely necessary refuelling. It is downtime and unproductive. My working life is selling products that reduce factories' down time. Why would I want to do what i help others avoid? That, and the rurality. Combine the two and I'm sat late into the evening recharging in some hell-hole devoid of amenities when I could be at home enjoying creature comforts. Deeply unappealing and nowhere does the word 'convenience' have any right to an appearance,

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Maybe I will be choosing the restaurant after all...

You’ve got 10 years and a couple of months to be right

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I guess at least some of my attitude to this is from much of my working life involving driving. There's never been time to be sitting around or spending more time than is absolutely necessary refuelling. It is downtime and unproductive. My working life is selling products that reduce factories' down time. Why would I want to do what i help others avoid? That, and the rurality. Combine the two and I'm sat late into the evening recharging in some hell-hole devoid of amenities when I could be at home enjoying creature comforts. Deeply unappealing and nowhere does the word 'convenience' have any right to an appearance,

Ironically though, that’s the very essence of the EV
mindset - recharge when the car is not in use and you’re not driving, ie zero waste. Of course that doesn’t work so well for those travelling very long distances or don’t regularly have a reason to park where they can recharge.

If you can’t charge an EV at home, can’t charge at work, never go to a supermarket, never stop for toilet breaks whilst travelling, never drink coffee, never eat at McDonalds, never go out for a meal, never go to the pub or cinema, etc then it means that you have to go out of your way to charge.

EVs clearly don’t work well (yet) for those people with the most extreme cases - and yours is almost certainly one but most people do do those things or could do those things, and could do those things whilst recharging with relatively little adjustment to what they already do. I’m an example, I could but I don’t!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

7,000,000 Tesla’s manufactured to date.

Who’d a thought that possible back in 2014 ?

About as ridiculous as the CEO of Ford admitting that he’s been driving a Xiaomi Speed Ultra 7 (SU7) for the last six months and “doesn’t want to give it back.”

This $30,000 Porsche Taycan competitor allegedly fully recharges in 15 minutes.

(That’s the price in China, expect to pay a tad more in Europe and North America)

 

[Bellow]

If you can’t charge an EV at home, can’t charge at work, never go to a supermarket, never stop for toilet breaks whilst travelling, never drink coffee, never eat at McDonalds, never go out for a meal, never go to the pub or cinema, etc then it means that you have to go out of your way to charge.

You called? That's me to a tee! When I said 160 miles as a typical days mileage, it's usually a bit higher and here's why. Deliveries are the trigger for me to get in the car/truck. Delivery destinations are circa 65 miles from base. I could go to each on separate days but triangulate to visit both on the same day - hence zero time to be faffing with the above. The reason is to cut down on fuel consumption and hence CO2. 180 miles rather than 260. I'd be using 44% more fuel/CO2 if I spread it over two days - and until all electricity is generated from renewables that still matters in terms of CO2 reduction. Add in the day 'saved' which can be put to more productive use and it makes sense to do it this way and zero sense to do it any other way. The UK is toiling with poor productivity - lets not make that worse by turning a day's work into two.

EVs clearly don’t work well (yet) for those people with the most extreme cases - and yours is almost certainly one but most people do do those things or could do those things, and could do those things whilst recharging with relatively little adjustment to what they already do. I’m an example, I could but I don’t!

True. But, there is still no viable solution for those further down the food chain (for the want of a better expression) who need a car to get to work, cannot charge at home, barely have time or money for fripperies that would shove time during recharging, and probably can't afford an EV for some time yet (it's going to be a while before the EVs that weren't first company cars to filter down to affordable prices). Keep running an old ICE banger or take the bus isn't really going to cut it for them.

 

[markjay]

...When I said 160 miles as a typical days mileage, it's usually a bit higher....

So, isn't EV range isn't an issue for you, then? What's stopping you from getting one - cost, or lack of charging facilities?

 

[TC350]

7,000,000 Tesla’s manufactured to date.

Who’d a thought that possible back in 2014 ?

About as ridiculous as the CEO of Ford admitting that he’s been driving a Xiaomi Speed Ultra 7 (SU7) for the last six months and “doesn’t want to give it back.”

This $30,000 Porsche Taycan competitor allegedly fully recharges in 15 minutes.

(That’s the price in China, expect to pay a tad more in Europe and North America)

View attachment 162963

I had a look over one of these at Shanghai airport a few months ago. It seemed very well put together and my initial impression was that it was a direct competitor to the Taycan that my wife’s friend has and my friend has on order. Pricing wasn’t announced until a couple of weeks after I saw it, but if it isn’t levered up too high by import taxes and what-the-market-will-bear, it’ll be superb value.

 

[ChipChop]

7,000,000 Tesla’s manufactured to date.

Who’d a thought that possible back in 2014 ?

About as ridiculous as the CEO of Ford admitting that he’s been driving a Xiaomi Speed Ultra 7 (SU7) for the last six months and “doesn’t want to give it back.”

This $30,000 Porsche Taycan competitor allegedly fully recharges in 15 minutes.

(That’s the price in China, expect to pay a tad more in Europe and North America)

View attachment 162963

A Chinese copy of the Porsche Taycan priced at launch as a loss leader. Ripping other people off is something to celebrate?

 

[Bellow]

So, isn't EV range isn't an issue for you, then? What's stopping you from getting one - cost, or lack of charging facilities?

Both - and more.
Cost - for something that can handle the deliveries I do (bulk and weight) the cost would be absurd.
I'd have to get landlord permission for a wall box charger on a lease that's expiry is imminent. The nearest public charger is two miles away and really isn't a valid option. The electric supply here isn't that stable either. Crashed for an hour or more earlier in the week overnight. That would have knocked a hole in overnight charging - and impacted on the following day. Cancelling meetings/deliveries is not an option.
The range is still an issue. Doubtful that 160 miles from 12 hours 3-pin charging is actually 160 miles on a larger vehicle. Taking two days to accomplish what I do in one day is counterproductive and wasteful. Winter here depletes EV range as we know. Here, it is prudent to run with as much fuel as possible to provide heat if stranded in snow overnight - it can and does happen all too easily. Someone will no doubt say that the answer to that is to recharge before setting off for home. Do that and the roads are filling with snow all the while increasing the chances of getting stuck. Heavy EVs with limited ground clearance aren't going to be ideal in snow either. Also, there are times when the preferred route is out of bounds due to weather. The resulting detour will eat into range. Winter in the NE Scotland is difficult and there's no time for faffing around when the weather is closing in. This has to be factored into any vehicle choice I make. Currently I have AT tyres, large ground clearance, and a 'locker' diff. - that works and keeps me safe. It will ford deep water if needs be - a tricky scenario for EVs.
Maintenance - which for EVs will be very expensive for some time - dealer hourly rates. ICE I can maintain myself.
Cost though is probably still the biggest factor - they are simply too expensive for me to buy (or lease - the costs of which are likely to increase due to poor residuals) into and as the product line I sell has seen significant price increases post-Covid, there are limits to increasing my pricing any further without risking losing business.

 

[Bellow]

7,000,000 Tesla’s manufactured to date.

You're the money guy. Tell us, did Tesla turn a profit on those cars - or was it trading carbon credits that brought the cash in?

 

[ALFAitalia]

Be honest @Bellow and the other anti's on here like @ChipChop . Even if electric was 100% green and free and you were given an EV with a 1000 mile range (that you could charge in 5 minutes.......because you NEVER stop for lunch or a slash!) for free with free insurance I think that you would still find a reason that you should drive ICE and why they are better!!!!

As I've said many times....I don't like them and hopefully will never own one through choice......but some of the anti EV stuff that people come up with on here is hilarious.....much of it being just nonsense.....but it makes me laugh if nothing else.

 

[SmartAmg]

Be honest @Bellow and the other anti's on here like @ChipChop . Even if electric was 100% green and free and you were given an EV with a 1000 mile range (that you could charge in 5 minutes.......because you NEVER stop for lunch or a slash!) for free with free insurance I think that you would still find a reason that you should drive ICE and why they are better!!!!

As I've said many times....I don't like them and hopefully will never own one through choice......but some of the anti EV stuff that people come up with on here is hilarious.....much of it being just nonsense.....but it makes me laugh if nothing else.

Totally, agree!