The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

The idea is that you come up with an innovative idea and thus create the market for it.
This was the case with Apple's first 'personal computer', with the iPhone, with the iPad, etc.
This was also the case with the Renault Espace (the first versatile MPV or People Carrier, if not counting the VW 'minibus'), and with Tesla.
However, the flip sides is that people and companies often build new things that no one wants. It's always a process of trial-and-error.

I'm just pointing out that the industry has a tendency to make stuff because it can make it, rather than because people want it.

Very much like the Apple 1, the first GUI's, Windows 1.0, the Microsoft Band, Bing, Groove and Invoke.

While Renault brought out the Vel Satis & Avantime, which even the French didn't buy.

 

[BTB 500]

Says he, tearing his hair out at the lack of petrol engined luxury estate cars that could compete with a Tesla S.

Estate cars are on the way out - even Volvo have stopped selling them (in the UK anyway). It's SUVs or nothing, sadly. Bad luck if you want the ability to move bulky things around without driving something with the aerodynamics of a garden shed.

 

[markjay]

Estate cars are on the way out - even Volvo have stopped selling them (in the UK anyway). It's SUVs or nothing, sadly. Bad luck if you want the ability to move bulky things around without driving something with the aerodynamics of a garden shed.

^^^^
This

60 years of Volvo estate cars | Auto Express

Forget crossovers, for ultimate practicality the estate is still king and after 60 years building the things, nobody does estates like Volvo

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Estate cars are on the way out - even Volvo have stopped selling them (in the UK anyway). It's SUVs or nothing, sadly. Bad luck if you want the ability to move bulky things around without driving something with the aerodynamics of a garden shed.

Precisely my point about the industry making stuff that it wants to make, like higher margin diesel SUV's, rather than what customers want, like petrol estates.

Fortunately Volvo backtracked on the estate decision, and has now brought them back to the UK.

But who wants to look as miserable as Branagh driving Wallander's Volvo estate?

So BMW gets the business, with 2 out of 3 Dreier in Germany being an estate. But just one in four in the UK.

Back from the dead: Volvo V60 and V90 estates return to the UK

Volvo estates are soon back on sale in the UK after the brand reverses its decision to withdraw the V60 and V90. CAR has the lowdown on the situation.

www.carmagazine.co.uk

 

[190]

Whilst the report doesn’t state it, the above headlines suggest that only 33% of households have 2 or more cars which surprised me, I expected there to be more multi car households relative to single car households.

Surprises me too, I expected much more. I did a quick local survey on our daily walk. 15% had one car and 85% 2. Every working household had two cars, the only households with one car being pensioners include one very sharp 85 year old lady who still drives.

In 10% of the households one of the two cars was an EV.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Surprises me too, I expected much more. I did a quick local survey on our daily walk. 15% had one car and 85% 2. Every working household had two cars, the only households with one car being pensioners include one very sharp 85 year old lady who still drives.

In 10% of the households one of the two cars was an EV.

I did the same last night when I walked the dog! That’s about what I might expect too. The National travel survey data is the data but it doesn’t seem to reflect what appears to be the case outside of large city/town centres.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Surprises me too, I expected much more. I did a quick local survey on our daily walk. 15% had one car and 85% 2. Every working household had two cars, the only households with one car being pensioners include one very sharp 85 year old lady who still drives.

In 10% of the households one of the two cars was an EV.

This reminds me of the true story about a team of Strategy Consultants from THE top strategy consultancy going into British Leyland in 1985 and "brainstorming" the target market for the Austin Rover Metro. Their main conclusion: a car for one's teenagers, or the Nanny.

True story, told to me by a junior in the team who "disagreed" with his colleagues.

Bottom line: is your local area a typical sample of the nation as a whole?

 

[pioneercollector]

I live in a narrow lane with around 22 listed building along the length of the lane, My immediate location running backward from No 21 the cars number:
21 - 2 x 4x4. 1 x Mini Cooper, 1 x BMW 325
20 - 1 x Honda Jazz
19 - 1 x Smart 1 x Micra
18 - No car ( Does not drive )
17 - 1 x Honda 4x4, 1 x Mercedes SL 2 x Motorbikes 1 x Nissan Townstar EV
16 - 1 x Petrol Vauxhall
15 - No Car ( Husband died ) Was Citroen Xantia
14 - 1 x Volvo Estate, 1 x Ford Fiesta, 1 x Vauxhall diesel Van
13 - 1 x Nissan
12 - 1 x Citroen people carrier
11 - 1 x Mitsubishi Warrior, MG EV
10 - 1 x Mini Cooper S, Mercedes E Class estate
9 - 1 x 4x4 1 x Tesla S
8 - Fiat 500 EV, Toyota Yaris
7 - Fiat Doblo people carrier ( Dog Carrier )
6 - Toyota Petrol ( Small thing )
5 - Something in the garage and Nissan Juke
4 - SAAB 99 Mini Cooper
3 - Vauxhall estate, Honda HR-V, Peugeot 1008, Toyota Aygo
2 - BMW X5
1 - Nissan Micra

So 4 x EVs, rest are petrol / Diesel, Most of the residents are over 55.

Most have one car, or two cars - If the offspring are still home then around 3+ cars

Most of the cars have not changed in 10 years, Some longer

Parking for the cottages is around 160 feet from the homes - Only a few ( 3 ) have garages ( Listed buildings and all that goes with that debacle ), but do have power, two do have charging points for the EV on the driveway ( All have multi car parking.

That is my location, certain not representative of the majority of Bath - Most homes have zero parking and fight for the couple of spaces available ( I live on the edge of outer hell, and then you are in inner hell within 5 minutes!

We are just outside of the CAZ, Which might explain why there is very little to no urge to buy a new vehicle in my area. I keep my own vehicles for as long as possible, always have, choose wisely and get exactly what you need / want and it will be a keeper ........ not to mention great for the environment by not scrapping a perfectly good vehicle!!

 

[Bellow]

Most have one car, or two cars - If the offspring are still home then around 3+ cars

That is the reality in rural Scotland and with the housing market causing offspring to stay with parents for longer, only likely to exacerbate than diminish. Four (say) cars needing charged twice a week from one wall box charger - jeez, the fights for bathroom access will pale in comparison.
Out of curiosity, how many cars being charged simultaneously via 3-pin can a house supply support?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I live in a narrow lane with around 22 listed building along the length of the lane, My immediate location running backward from No 21 the cars number:
21 - 2 x 4x4. 1 x Mini Cooper, 1 x BMW 325
20 - 1 x Honda Jazz
19 - 1 x Smart 1 x Micra
18 - No car ( Does not drive )
17 - 1 x Honda 4x4, 1 x Mercedes SL 2 x Motorbikes 1 x Nissan Townstar EV
16 - 1 x Petrol Vauxhall
15 - No Car ( Husband died ) Was Citroen Xantia
14 - 1 x Volvo Estate, 1 x Ford Fiesta, 1 x Vauxhall diesel Van
13 - 1 x Nissan
12 - 1 x Citroen people carrier
11 - 1 x Mitsubishi Warrior, MG EV
10 - 1 x Mini Cooper S, Mercedes E Class estate
9 - 1 x 4x4 1 x Tesla S
8 - Fiat 500 EV, Toyota Yaris
7 - Fiat Doblo people carrier ( Dog Carrier )
6 - Toyota Petrol ( Small thing )
5 - Something in the garage and Nissan Juke
4 - SAAB 99 Mini Cooper
3 - Vauxhall estate, Honda HR-V, Peugeot 1008, Toyota Aygo
2 - BMW X5
1 - Nissan Micra

So 4 x EVs, rest are petrol / Diesel, Most of the residents are over 55.

Most have one car, or two cars - If the offspring are still home then around 3+ cars

Most of the cars have not changed in 10 years, Some longer

Parking for the cottages is around 160 feet from the homes - Only a few ( 3 ) have garages ( Listed buildings and all that goes with that debacle ), but do have power, two do have charging points for the EV on the driveway ( All have multi car parking.

That is my location, certain not representative of the majority of Bath - Most homes have zero parking and fight for the couple of spaces available ( I live on the edge of outer hell, and then you are in inner hell within 5 minutes!

We are just outside of the CAZ, Which might explain why there is very little to no urge to buy a new vehicle in my area. I keep my own vehicles for as long as possible, always have, choose wisely and get exactly what you need / want and it will be a keeper ........ not to mention great for the environment by not scrapping a perfectly good vehicle!!

So if the rest of the country's like you, one in five vehicles is an EV. (18.5% to be precise)

Interesting. The Government swears blind that there are only 1,250,000 EV's in the UK, roughly 3.75%

If you can get four EV's on your road, the rest of the country can easily accommodate another 5 million EV's making a total of 6,300,000 EV's (18.5% of 34 million)

So what's your explanation for your EV profligacy ? Are you all rich ?

 

[ToeKnee]

One of my good friends has six cars (including a Ferrari and a Cobra, but no Mercedes) - he recently ordered a new Porsche Taycan.

I have about a hundred friends with a cobra.......

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not an EV but a pioneer in hybrid powertrains. I would love to know how well the battery has held up after almost two decades of use but the owner was nowhere Insight



I’ll get me my coat. I genuinely would have liked to know.

 

[Mactech]

Not an EV but a pioneer in hybrid powertrains. I would love to know how well the battery has held up after almost two decades of use but the owner was nowhere Insight

View attachment 163060

I’ll get me my coat. I genuinely would have liked to know.

I'd just about forgotten about those. It really was a great insight to the future almost 1/4 of a century ago, but looking back to the future, it is now the past and it doesn't look quite the same from here...I'll get my De Lorean....

 

[Bellow]

While we are meandering down memory lane, what became of the Twizzy? Are they still in use, considered a success, etc, etc? I've never seen one in the flesh (not surprising, rural Scotland was never going to suit them) but how did they fare in cities? A good idea put to good use or did they just fizzle out and fade away?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

While we are meandering down memory lane, what became of the Twizzy? Are they still in use, considered a success, etc, etc? I've never seen one in the flesh (not surprising, rural Scotland was never going to suit them) but how did they fare in cities? A good idea put to good use or did they just fizzle out and fade away?

More popular in the South of France than wet and cold cities in the UK. They hold their money very very well though which is remarkable give that they almost gave them away when new - I seem to remember they were available for £60 per month!

Away from the beach and sunshine, the Ami makes a better city car prospect. We have a few Amis around here - and we are far from living a city life but much less rural than you! - so they seem to be hitting the spot for some people.

Personally I would like a Twizy, I love the concept but would rarely use it. If I was buying a car for beach front driving in ghe south of France then it would be a Crossblade, but I bet you could see that coming from a mile away!

 

[ChipChop]

Not an EV but a pioneer in hybrid powertrains. I would love to know how well the battery has held up after almost two decades of use but the owner was nowhere Insight

View attachment 163060

I’ll get me my coat. I genuinely would have liked to know.

The UK specialist for Insights is a fella in Hull called Peter Perkins. He makes new Honda IMA hybrid NiMH batteries and chargers. Link below...

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www.solarvan.co.uk

 

[SmartAmg]

While we are meandering down memory lane, what became of the Twizzy? Are they still in use, considered a success, etc, etc? I've never seen one in the flesh (not surprising, rural Scotland was never going to suit them) but how did they fare in cities? A good idea put to good use or did they just fizzle out and fade away?

Only ever seen one, once on the road.
Whizzing (Twizzing) in and out of a row of static traffic.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I had the pleasure of seeing a bespoke green Twizzy, registration SM7 buzzing through the backroads of Marylebone "in real life." It was being driven "con brio."

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It's about £7k to buy a nine year old Twizzy now, or £5k for one with a battery on lease. (Original price new was £8k)

Mileage is usually crazy low for a car, but just a bit low for a commuter motorbike. Typically 1-2,000 miles a year. (Range is 45 miles)

Batteries aren't an issue over here because we don't use them enough. In France, where they are a coastal alternative to a scooter, they still seem to be heavily used.

 

[BTB 500]

The UK specialist for Insights is a fella in Hull called Peter Perkins. He makes new Honda IMA hybrid NiMH batteries and chargers. Link below...

Loading…

www.solarvan.co.uk

NiMH cells are relatively robust, safe and easy to work with. Toyota/Lexus continued using them in their hybrids until quite recently.

EV fires are almost exclusively a Li Ion thing - there were something like 40,000 electric milk floats on the roads for decades, and I never heard of any of them catching fire

 

[Bellow]

It's about £7k to buy a nine year old Twizzy now, or £5k for one with a battery on lease. (Original price new was £8k)

63 to 88% residuals at what, ten years old? Contrast that with the residuals of the EVs coming off lease re price-follows-demand and there's something being said there.