The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

Still worried about the battery, or think it’s too old? I present to you the Renault Zoe. Again cheap motoring but the peace of mind comes at a price of £50 per month for the battery lease.

View attachment 162999

Source: Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Living with your parents and doing 3,000 miles a year in an old Polo.
Why not pick up a Nissan Leaf or VW Up and use Mum's electric.

 

[poormansporsche]

Living with your parents and doing 3,000 miles a year in an old Polo.
Why not pick up a Nissan Leaf or VW Up and use Mum's electric.

FFS don't give them any more ideas to blow our leccy dosh. Do you have any idea how much it costs to run a set of straighteners that are left on for 12 hours straight .....

 

[ChipChop]

When people say EVs are too expensive, and tha there aren’t any affordable small EVs then I present to you this, the Mitsubishi iMIEV, with 40 mile (winter) range.

Motoring doesn’t get much less expensive than that, especially for the 65% of households who can potentially park on the road and charge at home. I’m genuinely tempted.

View attachment 162998

Source: Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

If you are seriously tempted to buy this i would first look into how many working Chademo chargers you have within a 20 miles radius of where you live. You can get around this problem by buying a ccs to chademo adaptor but they are over £800.

 

[ChipChop]

Still worried about the battery, or think it’s too old? I present to you the Renault Zoe. Again cheap motoring but the peace of mind comes at a price of £50 per month for the battery lease.

View attachment 162999

Source: Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

The battery lease starts at £50 a month but goes up to £150 a month depending on how many miles you self declare in advance. The buy out of the battery lease contract is £2000. Traders hate these battery lease EV's as the monthly fee has to be paid even when they are in the trade (sitting on a forecourt unused).

 

[clk320x]

If you are seriously tempted to buy this i would first look into how many working Chademo chargers you have within a 20 miles radius of where you live. You can get around this problem by buying a ccs to chademo adaptor but they are over £800.

Did you read his post? You’d charge it at home.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

FFS don't give them any more ideas to blow our leccy dosh. Do you have any idea how much it costs to run a set of straighteners that are left on for 12 hours straight .....

That I do. She's 26 now and in her own flat, thank the Lord. Living in Central London, still hasn't learned to drive, and has no plans to, this side of 30. it's different world.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If you are seriously tempted to buy this i would first look into how many working Chademo chargers you have within a 20 miles radius of where you live. You can get around this problem by buying a ccs to chademo adaptor but they are over £800.

I’ve been tempted for more than 12 years, but I’ve not bitten the bullet, but for that price then it might be an interesting buy. If I bought one then I don’t think I’d ever rapid charge it but we do have Charon chargers nearby should I ever need to.

 

[markjay]

Can I conclude that the west cannot simultaneously solely sell EVs and make a profit?

It's possible that EV manufacturing will go the way that computers, TVs, and other consumer electronics went - East.

What kept the automotive industry alive in the West is the heavy reliance on sophisticated metallurgy and skilled machining - things that the Far East isn't best at. But once you get rid of the need to manufacture the complex engine and transmission and replace them with a battery and electric motor, the West loses its relative edge.

So, yes, it's quite possible that the West can't make EVs and make a profit on them at the same time.

MG MG4 EV details | carwow.co.uk

quotes.carwow.co.uk

 

[Bellow]

It's possible that EV manufacturing will go the way that computers, TVs, and other consumer electronics went - East.

What kept the automotive industry alive in the West is the heavy reliance on sophisticated metallurgy and skilled machining - things that the Far East isn't best at. But once you get rid of the need to manufacture the complex engine and transmission and replace them with a battery and electric motor, the West loses its relative edge.

So, yes, it's quite possible that the West can't make EVs and make a profit on them at the same time.

MG MG4 EV details | carwow.co.uk

quotes.carwow.co.uk

How will jobless westerners afford products made in the east?

 

[BTB 500]

Your previous post showed that there were 26 charging points in the town you selected as an example. Like most they will almost all be available almost all of the time, so there’s plenty of capacity for additional EV drivers in the town.

Given that there is a concentration of charging points in the two main car parks in the town, is it reasonable to assume that there will be shops, pub, cinema, restaurant, coffee shop, public convenience in the area?

Of course there’s not a charger at every shop, coffee shop, cinema, car park, but if you have an EV and wish to charge it you can make choices to charge where you could normally go if you can, or go to an alternative if you can’t

Problem is that most of the chargers are pretty slow (a lot of them are only 7 kW), so you're not going to get much of a top-up even if you hang around for an hour or more. And with the exception of Aldi none of the other supermarkets have chargers, so you'd likely be carrying your shopping across town to get back to the car park where you were charging. It's all 'possible', but not ideal ... particularly if you can't charge at home. I suspect most people would normally go into town once or twice a week, and those would only be short visits. I've never personally been anywhere there other than to the shops, bank, or my solicitor. If I need fuel that's when I fill up - there's a forecourt at Morrisons and a Shell next door. But that only takes a couple of minutes every 550-600 miles.

For example if traveling a long distance in an EV and need to have pitstop, eat and drink, then you’d choose a location where you could do those things and charge at the same time, which might not be where you’d stop if you didn't need to charge.

I don't personally stop to eat or drink, but of course others may do and for them I agree it would make little difference.

It just requires small adjustments, just like having to stop for petrol or diesel as you go about your day requires a small adjustment to stop (at best) or change your route and stop (quite likely). Not many people stop and refill at “any” petrol station.

As above I generally get fuel beforehand when we're going into town for groceries anyway. But this isn't needed very often. Others drive thirstier cars of course (my SL falls into that category but I don't drive it very much).

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The battery lease starts at £50 a month but goes up to £150 a month depending on how many miles you self declare in advance. The buy out of the battery lease contract is £2000. Traders hate these battery lease EV's as the monthly fee has to be paid even when they are in the trade (sitting on a forecourt unused).

You sound clued up on Zoe battery leasing so I’ll take your word for it. I don't suppose you have a link do you? I’d prefer the Zoe. Unfortunately it looks like Renault UK have removed the detailed information on leasing options and buyout, and now simply state that leases start from £25 per month.

When I looked into it a while back most people - including the current owner of that car - opted for the ~£50 per month lease. The cost of buying out the battery lease at that time was a sliding scale based upon age, and I think was £1600 on the 7 year old car I was looking and would be £1100 two years later.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the asset value of the battery is written down based upon the monthly payment and once the total of monthly payments reach or exceed the original value of the asset then the ownership may be transferred to the lease for a nominal cost plus admin costs. That wouldn’t be unusual.

Again it wouldn’t be unusual for the lessor to terminate a lease agreement early if the lessee forward paid the balance of the agreed term. When this happens then the lessor may allow ownership of the asset to be transferred if doing so would meet the cost of the value not yet written down.

The only current information I can find is on the Renault Group website (below). The £150 per month iou mentioned would far exceed the cost of the unlimited annual mileage option, which at €124 per months is around £103 per month. The €69 (£57) option for 7500km (4600 miles) looks like the ~£50 pm option

If you've opted for battery rental, there are various packages to choose from, depending on the annual mileage required. For example, the Z.E. Flex package starts at 69 euros (for 7,500 km per year), at 114 euros per month (for 17,500 km per year) and the Z.E. Relax package offers unlimited mileage for 124 euros per month

Source: All you need to know about recharging the Renault ZOE - Renault Group

 

[BTB 500]

Do you know what a "household" is ?

I do.

Five students living in a terraced house in Newcastle are "five households."

And five family members living in a house is "one household".

And how many households don't even have a car? That'll be about one in five these days.

The average number of cars per household is over 1 though. That probably maps pretty closely to people - not many individuals in the real world (outside MBClub ) own multiple cars.

So the number of people who can't charge at home, one way or another is still quite small.

I don't think 35% of 28 million is that small, but that's just a personal opinion.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I do.
And five family members living in a house is "one household".
The average number of cars per household is over 1 though. That probably maps pretty closely to people - not many individuals in the real world (outside MBClub ) own multiple cars.
I don't think 35% of 28 million is that small, but that's just a personal opinion.

Excellent !!

So you understand that when a man and a woman live in one household with a driveway, they have access to a home charger for BOTH their cars.

Agreed: 8 million households not having access to off street charging is not small. My daughter is a good example. A city dweller, five households in one tall Georgian house, and not one of those five households runs a car. If they did, they'd have to charge their Tesla 3 at the work car park, at the supermarket, at McDonalds, the pub, or the shopping centre multi-storey.

But with 34 million ICE cars on the road, it's not an issue to worry anyone over the next decade or two.

Because real people buy old cars that were bought by someone else.

 

[ChipChop]

You sound clued up on Zoe battery leasing so I’ll take your word for it. I don't suppose you have a link do you? I’d prefer the Zoe. Unfortunately it looks like Renault UK have removed the detailed information on leasing options and buyout, and now simply state that leases start from £25 per month.

When I looked into it a while back most people - including the current owner of that car - opted for the ~£50 per month lease. The cost of buying out the battery lease at that time was a sliding scale based upon age, and I think was £1600 on the 7 year old car I was looking and would be £1100 two years later.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the asset value of the battery is written down based upon the monthly payment and once the total of monthly payments reach or exceed the original value of the asset then the ownership may be transferred to the lease for a nominal cost plus admin costs. That wouldn’t be unusual.

Again it wouldn’t be unusual for the lessor to terminate a lease agreement early if the lessee forward paid the balance of the agreed term. When this happens then the lessor may allow ownership of the asset to be transferred if doing so would meet the cost of the value not yet written down.

The only current information I can find is on the Renault Group website (below). The £150 per month iou mentioned would far exceed the cost of the unlimited annual mileage option, which at €124 per months is around £103 per month. The €69 (£57) option for 7500km (4600 miles) looks like the ~£50 pm option



Source: All you need to know about recharging the Renault ZOE - Renault Group

The lease is done via mobilize financial services. Someone on another forum i frequent was quoted £2000 to buy out of the battery lease on their 2013 Zoe ZE22. 60k miles.

How battery rental fosters the roll-out of electric vehicles

www.mobilize-fs.com

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The average number of cars per household is over 1 though. That probably maps pretty closely to people - not many individuals in the real world (outside MBClub ) own multiple cars.

I’m not sure how to read that.

If I read it as most households don't have more than one car then I don’t agree.

If I read it as households with multiple adults have a car for each adult then I agree.

 

[poormansporsche]

That I do. She's 26 now and in her own flat, thank the Lord. Living in Central London, still hasn't learned to drive, and has no plans to, this side of 30. it's different world.

Being "Blessed" with 2 teenage Daughters my gas n leccy is already 3 times the price of my mortgage, let alone adding a couple of electric cars to the bill... Living in the country a car is a social necessity for a 17 year old girl. (In fact the monthly loo roll and laddered tights bill is probably not far off the price of my mortgage !!!)

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The lease is done via mobilize financial services. Someone on another forum i frequent was quoted £2000 to buy out of the battery lease on their 2013 Zoe ZE22. 60k miles.

How battery rental fosters the roll-out of electric vehicles

www.mobilize-fs.com

Thank you for sharing. Perhaps you already know, Mobilize is a brand of RCI Bank, Renault Credit International, or “Renault Finance”, ie Renault. I was hoping for a link showing the lease options but that link is really promotional news article.

The buy out price of £1600 (and reducing over time) was a few years ago now and so maybe it’s now changed to a fixed fee of £2000, however I’d hazard a guess that their buy out price will have since changed with the passage of time.

Do you have a link to the £150 per month lease you mentioned?

 

[BTB 500]

If I read it as most households don't have more than one car then I don’t agree.

If I read it as households with multiple adults have a car for each adult then I agree.

Best figure I could find was an average of 1.22 cars per UK household in 2022.

 

[BTB 500]

She's 26 now and in her own flat, thank the Lord. Living in Central London, still hasn't learned to drive, and has no plans to, this side of 30. it's different world.

My sister lives in London and neither she nor her husband have ever driven. My dad didn't learn to drive till he was in his 40s - he'd had a company car for a good few years by then

 

[ChipChop]

Thank you for sharing. Perhaps you already know, Mobilize is a brand of RCI Bank, Renault Credit International, or “Renault Finance”, ie Renault. I was hoping for a link showing the lease options but that link is really promotional news article.

The buy out price of £1600 (and reducing over time) was a few years ago now and so maybe it’s now changed to a fixed fee of £2000, however I’d hazard a guess that their buy out price will have since changed with the passage of time.

Do you have a link to the £150 per month lease you mentioned?

Sorry no i do not have a link to the higher mileage lease option fee. Try contacting mobilize but if you say the higher rate is now around £100 a month happy to accept that figure. Apparently the battery warranty is not that good anyway as they insist on a BMS update before they will ok a replacement battery. This update will put the battery back within spec so no replacement. Repeat ad infinitum.