The EV fact thread

[Bobby Dazzler]

In the context of seeking the cheapest charging (when home charging isn't viable) fripperies like cinema and coffee don't feature. So, recharging is the event and many will resent its intrusion.

I mentioned coffee and cinema because I was replying to you] post which mentioned them. The point is that an EV driver recharges when the car is parked and there’s an option to recharge which meets there needs.

If you can charge at home or work then most people will probably charge there and choose not to charge elsewhere. If home or work is not an option then you charge wherever you park which meets your needs.

There won’t be an EV charger at every destination, but if you need to go to a supermarket and your usual one doesn’t have a charger, then someone who can’t charge at home or work can go to a supermarket which does have a charger.

Some might say that they are not prepared to sacrifice the choice of supermarkets. That’s fine, those people should just continue to drive an EV, but I they ought not say that it’s not possible because it is - they just choose not to.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

As we know Tesla are the cheapest of the 'major' networks to start with, so any discounting will obviously result in an even lower rate. But as mentioned they only have 47 public charging sites across the whole of the UK, so that wouldn't be available to a lot of people on a similar short/local trip. If you include membership deals then there are also ways to get a bit of discount on unleaded - Costco is the one that springs to mind, but again only if you have one handy of course.

Ultra rapid chargers are mostly intended to recharge in longer journeys and so many many Tesla Superchargers are strategically positioned on the major road network.

Others Tesla Superchargers are located at destinations which are likely to attract people travelling longer distance, and hence may need to recharge quickly.

That doesn’t mean that people don’t pass the destinations or use those major roads just because they live nearby, they do, or could choose to if they wanted to or needed to.

I have the choice of three M&S which take almost the same amount of time to get to. If I couldn’t charge at home then I would choose to use the M&S with Tesla Superchargers.

Substitute me for someone else. Substitute M&S with a different supermarket or another destination. Substitute Tesla Supercharger with the preferred charge point from a different preferred network.

 

[BTB 500]

Now post the high cost of Motorway service area diesel and petrol.

Who buys fuel on UK motorways? With a high speed cruising range of over 600 miles on a tank (all year round) it just isn't necessary.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Who buys fuel on UK motorways? With a high speed cruising range of over 600 miles on a tank (all year round) it just isn't necessary.

WHO charges at UK motorways and ultra rapid chargers?

Charging at ultra rapid chargers - at motorway service stations or elsewhere - isn’t necessary for most EV drivers on most journeys either, as most people rarely exceed their range on a regular basis.

The many unused ultra rapid charge points demonstrate this clearly, unyet it’s the undiscounted cost of ultra rapid chargers which is used to argue that EVs are expensive.

That’s like arguing that the cost of motorway service station fuel - without any discounts - represents the cost of running ICE. It doesn’t it’s irrelevant, for both ICE and EVs.

If someone does need to top up whilst travelling - whether ICE or EV then they’ll only do it if they really need to, it’s good value, or a small top up gets them to their destination.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Relevant to the thread title - in what way?

My mistake, I thought this was the politics thread because of all the politics in it.

 

[Bellow]

I mentioned coffee and cinema because I was replying to you] post which mentioned them. The point is that an EV driver recharges when the car is parked and there’s an option to recharge which meets there needs.

If you can charge at home or work then most people will probably charge there and choose not to charge elsewhere. If home or work is not an option then you charge wherever you park which meets your needs.

The places I park, there are no charge points. That's just how it is.

There won’t be an EV charger at every destination, but if you need to go to a supermarket and your usual one doesn’t have a charger, then someone who can’t charge at home or work can go to a supermarket which does have a charger.

My nearest supermarket is 2 miles from home. I'm there fortnightly for 20 minutes. Not much opportunity for recharging Even less when we realise it has no charging facility.
Next nearest supermarkets are 14 miles away so a wasteful 28 mile round trip. One of them at least has charging facilities.

Some might say that they are not prepared to sacrifice the choice of supermarkets. That’s fine, those people should just continue to drive an EV, but I they ought not say that it’s not possible because it is - they just choose not to.

Twenty minutes of recharging, an additional 28 miles (taking typically 45 minutes where no charging occurs but battery depletion does) of driving, and a change of supermarket (unwelcome). Not a compelling vision for me.
We appear to be losing sight of the fact that a car as an enabler has to fit into the lifestyle of its owner. Not the lifestyle of the owner having to change merely to refuel the car.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The places I park, there are no charge points. That's just how it is.

My nearest supermarket is 2 miles from home. I'm there fortnightly for 20 minutes. Not much opportunity for recharging Even less when we realise it has no charging facility.
Next nearest supermarkets are 14 miles away so a wasteful 28 mile round trip. One of them at least has charging facilities.

Twenty minutes of recharging, an additional 28 miles (taking typically 45 minutes where no charging occurs but battery depletion does) of driving, and a change of supermarket (unwelcome). Not a compelling vision for me.
We appear to be losing sight of the fact that a car as an enabler has to fit into the lifestyle of its owner. Not the lifestyle of the owner having to change merely to refuel the car.

As I’ve said several times before, based upon everything you say, an EV isn’t viable for you in your particular circumstances, but it doesn’t mean that it can’t work for the majority.

If those who can do, then those who can’t don’t have to. There are tens of millions of people who can charge at home and who regularly visit places with EV charge points.

It’s in the interests of those who can’t or won’t to encourage everyone else into an EV, so that the inevitable residual can carry on using the most appropriate fuel.

The logical extension to that is the concern that if everyone who can does, then petrol stations will close down. I’d worry about that in 20 or 30 years when the number of petrol stations has meaningfully reduced.

By then we’ll all be driving hydrogen fuelled cars as I hear that’s the next big thing and EVs are only a temporary stop gap measure to see us through to when hydrogen is ubiquitous

 

[markjay]

Not at all convinced that that's true. From my personal perspective, I'd consider taking the hit of higher cost of faster charging just to get the chore over and done with and get home to creature comforts sooner. The warped belief that in pursuit of cheaper charging I'd go and spend more money - money I'd no intention of spending - on fripperies like coffee, cinema, etc, etc, is just that - warped. I have all of that at home.

I actually agree, however, not entirely...

I charge almost solely at the lamppost charger in front of my house. I don't drive 10 minutes to the local Aldi where there are 3 free 40kw chargers, nor do I run a granny cable across the pavement to benefit from cheap home tariff. So, based on my own experience, I agree that many people will simply charge where it's most convenient to them, and regardless of cost.

However, I don't think that fast motorway charging will be the most convenient option for many people. For some, maybe, but most people will probably find it more convenient to charge the car overnight at the charger nearest to their home.

Of course, if there are no chargers where you live, and you must therefore stay in the vicinity of the car and wait while it's being charged, then you'll want to use the fastest charger that your car can support. But I don't think that this particular scenario will apply to very many people.

 

[ChipChop]

Who buys fuel on UK motorways? With a high speed cruising range of over 600 miles on a tank (all year round) it just isn't necessary.

What is the high speed (70mph motorway nsl) cruising range of a modern EV i wonder. Top up every 100 miles?

 

[Bellow]

I actually agree, however, not entirely...

I charge almost solely at the lamppost charger in front of my house. I don't drive 10 minutes to the local Aldi where there are 3 free 40kw chargers, nor do I run a granny cable across the pavement to benefit from cheap home tariff. So, based on my own experience, I agree that many people will simply charge where it's most convenient to them, and regardless of cost.

Agreed - free even, isn't enough versus convenience sometimes.

However, I don't think that fast motorway charging will be the most convenient option for many people

I didn't have ultra fast charging in mind.

. For some, maybe, but most people will probably find it more convenient to charge the car overnight at the charger nearest to their home.

For me, that's a 2 mile walk there and back. Which is out of the question on an unllit A-road with no pavement - far too dangerous,

Of course, if there are no chargers where you live, and you must therefore stay in the vicinity of the car and wait while it's being charged, then you'll want to use the fastest charger that your car can support. But I don't think that this particular scenario will apply to very many people.

It may well affect more than you realise.
I'm curious to hear from anyone living in rented accomodation of their experience in installing a home charger and/or creating an opening for a 3-pin plug cable to exit the property.

 

[BTB 500]

There won’t be an EV charger at every destination, but if you need to go to a supermarket and your usual one doesn’t have a charger, then someone who can’t charge at home or work can go to a supermarket which does have a charger.

Some might say that they are not prepared to sacrifice the choice of supermarkets. That’s fine, those people should just continue to drive an EV, but I they ought not say that it’s not possible because it is - they just choose not to.

You are looking at this from your personal experience and environment, which is understandable. It doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of the country though.

As mentioned before our nearest town (Market Drayton) only has 'fast' charging (one 11 kW outlet and one 22 kW) at Aldi. The other supermarkets (Lidl, Asda, Morrisons, Sainsbury's Local, Tesco Express) have nothing.

The next town in terms of distance (Newport, similar size) has Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl. But none of those have charging - in fact there aren't any public chargers in the town at all.

Telford (17 miles away) would be the closest place with rapid charging at a supermarket. Even that is pretty limited, with just two 'up to 50 kW' outlets (83p per kWh) at Morrisons and the same at Tesco Extra (62-69p per kWh).

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

What is the high speed (70mph motorway nsl) cruising range of a modern EV i wonder. Top up every 100 miles?

Good example of the refusal to understand new technology.

And worrying that a small elite group in the UK are able to average 70mph on British roads, while most of us only average 50mph at best. Wretched police force !

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

You are looking at this from your personal experience and environment, which is understandable. It doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of the country though.

As mentioned before our nearest town (Market Drayton) only has 'fast' charging (one 11 kW outlet and one 22 kW) at Aldi. The other supermarkets (Lidl, Asda, Morrisons, Sainsbury's Local, Tesco Express) have nothing.

The next town in terms of distance (Newport, similar size) has Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl. But none of those have charging - in fact there aren't any public chargers in the town at all.

Telford (17 miles away) would be the closest place with rapid charging at a supermarket. Even that is pretty limited, with just two 'up to 50 kW' outlets (83p per kWh) at Morrisons and the same at Tesco Extra (62-69p per kWh).

We do hope you get electricity in your home soon.

It is SO much better, and more convenient, than gas lighting and wood fires.

Your hermit-like life, never driving your car anywhere, must be so peaceful

ABRP

A Better Routeplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

 

[BIGDOG]

You are looking at this from your personal experience and environment, which is understandable. It doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of the country though.

As mentioned before our nearest town (Market Drayton) only has 'fast' charging (one 11 kW outlet and one 22 kW) at Aldi. The other supermarkets (Lidl, Asda, Morrisons, Sainsbury's Local, Tesco Express) have nothing.

The next town in terms of distance (Newport, similar size) has Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl. But none of those have charging - in fact there aren't any public chargers in the town at all.

Telford (17 miles away) would be the closest place with rapid charging at a supermarket. Even that is pretty limited, with just two 'up to 50 kW' outlets (83p per kWh) at Morrisons and the same at Tesco Extra (62-69p per kWh).

Why would you want to charge close to home?

 

[Bellow]

We do hope you get electricity in your home soon.

It is SO much better, and more convenient, than gas lighting and wood fires.

Your hermit-like life, never driving your car anywhere, must be so peaceful

The mocking, sneering, laughing at anyone who disagrees with you - odious.

 

[markjay]

What is the high speed (70mph motorway nsl) cruising range of a modern EV i wonder. Top up every 100 miles?

With my 74kWh battery, the indicated range for a full battery driving on French autoroutes at between 110kmh and 120kmh (the speed limit is 130kmh) was 230 miles. The WLTP range for my car is 285 miles. The maximum real-life range (in town) is 320 miles. Hope this answers your question. And yes, if your battery is running low and there's no public charger in sight, then dropping your motorway speed to 60-65mph is a sensible step.

EDIT: The car was heavily loaded (bad), the windows were winded half down for the dog (bad), the ambient temperature was mid-twenties (good).

 

[ChipChop]

With my 74kWh battery, the indicated range for a full battery driving on French autoroutes at between 110kmh and 120kmh (the speed limit is 130kmh) was 230 miles. The WLTP range for my car is 285 miles. The maximum real-life range (in town) is 320 miles. Hope this answers your question. And yes, if your battery is running low and there's no public charger in sight, then dropping your motorway speed to 60-65mph is a sensible step.

Thanks. So dreadful range at the motorway national speed limit compared to an ICE, even in the summer. How about in the winter?

 

[markjay]

Thanks. So dreadful range at the motorway national speed limit compared to an ICE.

About half that of 4-pot petrol car, or one third that of a 4-pot Diesel car. 'Dreadful' is a subjective assessment, though... personally, I have no issue with the range.

The Tesla Model-3 fairs better than my IONIQ 5, BTW. Also, the new IONIQ 5 has a battery with 10% more capacity than mine. But yes, EV range on a full battery is currently significantly less than that of a reasonably-frugal ICE car on a full tank.

 

[TC350]

Who buys fuel on UK motorways? With a high speed cruising range of over 600 miles on a tank (all year round) it just isn't necessary.

A year ago today, I bought fuel on the M6 toll. My wife was driving us home from north Wales, having scaled Snowdon the previous day. We were getting low on petrol and my wife hadn’t given a thought to the long motorway drive coming up when we were on A roads with cheaper fuel. I was surprised how many other cars were at the pumps. It cost a small fortune to fill up because I was still too knackered from the climb to estimate how small an amount of fuel we could get away with.

 

[BTB 500]

A year ago today, I bought fuel on the M6 toll. My wife was driving us home from north Wales, having scaled Snowdon the previous day. We were getting low on petrol and my wife hadn’t given a thought to the long motorway drive coming up when we were on A roads with cheaper fuel. I was surprised how many other cars were at the pumps. It cost a small fortune to fill up because I was still too knackered from the climb to estimate how small an amount of fuel we could get away with.

In 45+ years of driving I don't think I've ever bought fuel at a UK motorway service station. I have (occasionally) used the M6 toll though, and I've scaled Snowdon