The EV fact thread

[Bobby Dazzler]

You are looking at this from your personal experience and environment, which is understandable. It doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of the country though.

As mentioned before our nearest town (Market Drayton) only has 'fast' charging (one 11 kW outlet and one 22 kW) at Aldi. The other supermarkets (Lidl, Asda, Morrisons, Sainsbury's Local, Tesco Express) have nothing.

The next town in terms of distance (Newport, similar size) has Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl. But none of those have charging - in fact there aren't any public chargers in the town at all.

Telford (17 miles away) would be the closest place with rapid charging at a supermarket. Even that is pretty limited, with just two 'up to 50 kW' outlets (83p per kWh) at Morrisons and the same at Tesco Extra (62-69p per kWh).

I am looking at it my my personal perspective, but I am also looking at it from the perspective of tens of millions of drivers who are not looking at it from your perspective.

As I mention to @Bellow earlier today, based upon what you say, your personal situation means that an EV is not right for you, and that’s great, carry on using ICE, I know I will be.

But there are tens of millions of people who can make it work, and so comments about why it doesn’t work for you, doesn’t mean that it won’t work other people, we all get that.

People who can park on their drive can almost certainly make it work. People who don’t live in Market Drayton can almost certainly make it work. People who pass a Supercharger can too.

So yes I am viewing it from my own perspective, just as you are. However I’m taking it outside of my own theoretical perspective by sometimes using an EV like someone who can’t charge at home.

That’s quite powerful because it gives me a much better understanding than if I hadn’t.

 

[BTB 500]

We do hope you get electricity in your home soon.

It is SO much better, and more convenient, than gas lighting and wood fires.

Your hermit-like life, never driving your car anywhere, must be so peaceful

Very droll. I was answering the point about rapid charging at supermarkets though ... you clearly don't use McDonalds very often

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The mocking, sneering, laughing at anyone who disagrees with you - odious.

Others call it "pointing out the bleeding obvious."

I remember Old Boys wailing about the end of unloading the Big Ships by hand, Boilermakers bewailing the loss of Steam locos, and shorthand typists and NCR operators patiently explaining that you can't have an office without a typing pool or NCR room.

We know where they're coming from, but that doesn't mean that it's "odious" to point out that electric lighting and central heating is better than the gas lights and the living room coal fire that were in my grandmother's house.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Thanks. So dreadful range at the motorway national speed limit compared to an ICE, even in the summer. How about in the winter?

Yes, AMG fuel consumption is appalling at the motorway national speed limit.

I used to get 9mpg on the school run winter mornings from my 1998 E55 which "implies" a range of 200 miles from its very large 20 gallon tank. Dreadful ICE performance.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Very droll. I was answering the point about rapid charging at supermarkets though ... you clearly don't use McDonalds very often

Did I make a point about supermarkets? I thought I was saying that it's a shame that you don't have electricity at home, which you would be able to use, like most EV owners, to charge your EV very cheaply, probably 90% of the time.

I thought everyone repeatedly points out that electricity is all over the UK, and that most people beyond "Terraced life," will charge their vehicles overnight at home, locally on their street, or where they park their cars: at work, in the car park, at the pub, at the restaurant, and at supermarkets.

If you bought an EV, which I don't recommend that you do, you would charge it at home, like my vicar, and only need to top it up when you're travelling "beyond its range."

Even if you drive everywhere at an average speed of 70mph.

 

[BTB 500]

I am looking at it my my personal perspective, but I am also looking at it from the perspective of tens of millions of drivers who are not looking at it from your perspective.

As I mention to @Bellow earlier today, based upon what you say, your personal situation means that an EV is not right for you, and that’s great, carry on using ICE, I know I will be.

But there are tens of millions of people who can make it work, and so comments about why it doesn’t work for you, doesn’t mean that it won’t work other people, we all get that.

People who can park on their drive can almost certainly make it work. People who don’t live in Market Drayton can almost certainly make it work. People who pass a Supercharger can too.

So yes I am viewing it from my own perspective, just as you are. However I’m taking it outside of my own theoretical perspective by sometimes using an EV like someone who can’t charge at home.

That’s quite powerful because it gives me a much better understanding than if I hadn’t.

I've made no comments about whether an EV could work for me or not.

I was answering this specific comment:

if you need to go to a supermarket and your usual one doesn’t have a charger, then someone who can’t charge at home or work can go to a supermarket which does have a charger.

Some might say that they are not prepared to sacrifice the choice of supermarkets. That’s fine, those people should just continue to drive an EV, but I they ought not say that it’s not possible because it is - they just choose not to.

Just pointing out that it really isn't possible round here (in the West Midlands, not some remote Scottish Isle).

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Very droll. I was answering the point about rapid charging at supermarkets though ... you clearly don't use McDonalds very often

Obviously I don't use McDonalds very often. Why would I ?

But I do use A Better Route Planner when renting EV's abroad, and it shows me exactly where I can top up an EV "if I were to need to."

Which in a two week holiday, I don't usually need to do.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just pointing out that it really isn't possible round here (in the West Midlands, not some remote Scottish Isle).

Unless you drive on the motorways of the West Midlands, where there are dozens of EV chargers. (See map)

 

[BTB 500]

Did I make a point about supermarkets?

As above, I was specifically replying to a point about being able to fast charge at supermarkets. You replied with a link to a McDonalds, which isn't a supermarket. So not really relevant.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

What is the high speed (70mph motorway nsl) cruising range of a modern EV i wonder. Top up every 100 miles?

Well I’ve got an EV with what is probably the shortest range because it’s designed for use in cities. Driving at a sustained 70 mph in very cold weather would probably mean stopping every 65-70 miles to ensure that I kept a little in reserve.

Unfortunately it’s not often that I drive any car at a sustained 70 mph it’s usually an average of 5X mph in normal motorway traffic over the length of the journey, so more than 70 miles may be possible between recharging stops.

That’s with a tiny 23.7 kWh battery and - a charging stop would be around 30-35 minutes depending upon how low the charge was when you started and whether you go to 100% charge, but could be less than 30 minutes.

Now that would be rubbish for a daily 200 mile journey, but an occasional 200 mile trip to go on holiday, would be easy with two stops (or three short stops) on what would be a five hour journey, seems fine for a city car with the smallest battery.

Of course the EVs you see whizzing down the fast lane have a battery four or five times larger and la could travel four or five times further. Most “affordable” EVs have a battery two or three three times larger, so two or three times the range.

 

[BIGDOG]

I've made no comments about whether an EV could work for me or not.

I was answering this specific comment:



Just pointing out that it really isn't possible round here (in the West Midlands, not some remote Scottish Isle).

But you can charge at home, no?

 

[Bellow]

Re the discussion on the politics thread that belongs here...
It was mentioned that the average lifespan of a diesel car is 16 years. So it survives as viable for 13 years out of warranty. EVs typically have an 8 year battery warranty. Thereafter they are something of a hot potato given the high cost of battery replacement should it be required. Achieving an additional 8 years to match diesel lifespans (less is counter to CO2 reduction aims) is going to need either battery longevity beyond what the 8 year warranty implies, or very low sale prices and near Cuban ingenuity to keep them running. I doubt that we'll get close - never mind a cigar.

 

[BTB 500]

But you can charge at home, no?

I could, yes. But as mentioned I was replying to a comment that those who can't charge at home or at work could just charge at a supermarket while shopping.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Re the discussion on the politics thread that belongs here...
It was mentioned that the average lifespan of a diesel car is 16 years. So it survives as viable for 13 years out of warranty. EVs typically have an 8 year battery warranty. Thereafter they are something of a hot potato given the high cost of battery replacement should it be required. Achieving an additional 8 years to match diesel lifespans (less is counter to CO2 reduction aims) is going to need either battery longevity beyond what the 8 year warranty implies, or very low sale prices and near Cuban ingenuity to keep them running. I doubt that we'll get close - never mind a cigar.

Chuckle. The eight year warranty on this one "runs out next year."

It's done a quarter of a million miles in seven years yet still seems to be worth £25k

(Obviously in the States they do far more miles than this, as routine.)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Very droll. I was answering the point about rapid charging at supermarkets though ... you clearly don't use McDonalds very often

Oh, you were replying to BobbyDazzler's point about supermarkets. Ah, I see.

The two maps that I posted showed that there are chargers in Market Drayton and all the way along the M6,
which is useful for all those travelling beyond the range of their home charger.

 

[BIGDOG]

I could, yes. But as mentioned I was replying to a comment that those who can't charge at home or at work could just charge at a supermarket while shopping.

By showing that you could not charge near your home?

 

[clk320x]

What is the high speed (70mph motorway nsl) cruising range of a modern EV i wonder. Top up every 100 miles?

Delusional.

 

[BTB 500]

By showing that you could not charge near your home?

By showing that rapid charging at a supermarket while you shop isn't always possible, as was suggested.

 

[BTB 500]

Chuckle. The eight year warranty on this one "runs out next year."

It's done a quarter of a million miles in seven years yet still seems to be worth £25k

(Obviously in the States they do far more miles than this, as routine.)

View attachment 163605

Yet here's a 2017 Model S on 109k miles that's had a new battery:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

And a 2019 Model 3 on 24k miles that's had a new battery:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

And a 2019 Model X on 57k miles that's had a new battery:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Chuckle.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I've made no comments about whether an EV could work for me or not.

I was answering this specific comment:



Just pointing out that it really isn't possible round here (in the West Midlands, not some remote Scottish Isle).

No it was me that said I don’t think EVs could work for you based upon the comprehensive information you’ve provided about Market Drayton, it’s chargers, where you do and don’t go, and your long non-stop trips to the South East and Europe.

Saying the “West Midlands” could be interpreted as being the very heavily urbanised county of West Midlands in the centre of which is the UK’s second city and the third largest urban area, and the second most densely populated.

Whereas Market Drayton is in the West Midlands region, is much much more rural in comparison but is still just 14 miles away from a large Tesla Supercharger site, a stones throw from the nearest motorway junction.

Edited to add:
You are looking at this from your personal experience and environment. When I said if you go to a supermarket I didn’t mean you BTB, I meant you in general, perhaps I should have said when EV drivers go to the supermarket.