The EV fact thread

[Bobby Dazzler]

How does the current China-centric EV/ solar status quo make sense?

In the same way that the current China-centric manufacturing of most things make sense, presumably? We can blame Bill Gates, 5G, WHO, COP29, the illuminati and anyone else that people seeking fame, followers, likes, subscribes - and resulting advertising revenue - on social media deem to be behind a Machiavellian master plan.

Or it could just be that the vast majority of people don’t care about too much apart from image and price, and if the purchase doesn’t get seen or if the price is low enough, then it just becomes a put price. Hands up who’s up for everything currently made in China being made in the UK or Europe becoming several times more expensive that it is today?

PS I assume being made in Europe is OK. Well OK-ish because at least it’s not made in China.

 

[markjay]

And even Merc have lots of car factories outside Germany....some in the far East. So even your car could be built in places other than Germany depending on the model you own.

My (now sold) W203 was built in the Mercedes Benz East London factory in South Africa.

 

[markjay]

Bosch is a massive group of course. They have manufacturing sites in the UK (IIRC that's where their garden tools are made), and I think in North America as well. I'm sure stuff will be made in other countries too though, including China.

From memory, my Bosch cordless drill was made in Hungary.

 

[markjay]

How does the current China-centric EV/ solar status quo make sense?

The issue is distrust.

During the industrial revolution, we didn't insist that factories in England use only electricity from power stations fuelled by locally-sourced coal, because it's a 'bad idea' to rely on Welsh coal.

But we do think now that it's a bad idea to rely on another country - China - because we distrust them.

Distrust is the main stumbling block standing in the way of the next phase in our social evolution.

Britannia Ruled the Waves because over the centuries the various villages and counties managed to work together to form a formidable country. Steel was made in Sheffield, ships were built in Clydebank, arms were manufactured in Birmingham... and do on.

Globalisation is doubtlessly the next phase in our social evolution. But it will take decades - or centuries - before the distrust is gone.

 

[ChipChop]

In the same way that the current China-centric manufacturing of most things make sense, presumably? We can blame Bill Gates, 5G, WHO, COP29, the illuminati and anyone else that people seeking fame, followers, likes, subscribes - and resulting advertising revenue - on social media deem to be behind a Machiavellian master plan.

Or it could just be that the vast majority of people don’t care about too much apart from image and price, and if the purchase doesn’t get seen or if the price is low enough, then it just becomes a put price. Hands up who’s up for everything currently made in China being made in the UK or Europe becoming several times more expensive that it is today?

PS I assume being made in Europe is OK. Well OK-ish because at least it’s not made in China.

A products carbon footprint is of no importance in your opinion?

As a keen cyclist i recently purchased the pedals linked below for one of my mountain bikes. UK made, carbon neutral and no more expensive than other high end flat pedals made in the Far East. The only part that is not UK sourced are the 4 SKS roller bearings (made in France i beleive) and the IGUS bearings (made in Germany).

D2A - Pedal -2023 - PEMBREE

pembree.com

What you see as regressive and impossible is in fact already being acheived in the UK, albeit on a relatively small scale. See also Hope Tech in Lancashire or Orange cycles in Yorkshire.

 

[markjay]

A products carbon footprint is of no importance in your opinion?

As a keen cyclist i recently purchased the following pedals for one of my mountain bikes. UK made, carbon neutral and no more expensive than other high end flat pedals made in the Far East. The only part that is not UK sourced are the 4 SKS roller bearings (made in France i beleive) and the IGUS bearings (made in Germany).

D2A - Pedal -2023 - PEMBREE

pembree.com

What you see as regressive and impossible is in fact already being acheived in the UK, albeit on a small scale. See also Hope Tech in Lancashire or Orange in Yorkshire.

So you bought a product made in Western Europe that was manufactured and sold in carbon-neutral process. Great.

But you seem to suggest that it isn't possible for a manufacturer to make stuff in China and sell it the UK - carbon-neutral.

Why? Is it something in the air here in Western Europe? Or perhaps we're just smarter than the Chinese....?

 

[ChipChop]

So you bought a product made in Western Europe that was manufactured and sold in carbon-neutral process. Great.

But you seem to suggest that it isn't possible for a manufacturer to make stuff in China and sell it the UK - carbon-neutral.

Why? Is it something in the air here in Western Europe? Or perhaps we're just smarter than the Chinese....?

Feel free to rattle off all the carbon neutral products China imports to the UK. They have been shipping their crap over here for a good few decades now.

 

[markjay]

Feel free to rattle off all the carbon neutral products China imports to the UK. They have been shipping their crap over here for a good few decades now.

Legalise and force them to offset their carbon emissions so that all products sold in the UK are carbon neutral. We need a catchy name for this environmental policy, though.... how about 'Net Zero'?

Here's a goal you can rally support for.

 

[ChipChop]

Legalise and force them to offset their carbon emissions so that all products sold in the UK are carbon neutral. We need a catchy name for this environmental plocy, though.... how about Net Zero?

Here's a goal you can rally support for.

Geography makes that practically impossible. China is a long way from the UK.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

A products carbon footprint is of no importance in your opinion?.

Au contraire. How did you reach that conclusion?

 

[markjay]

Geography makes that practically impossible. China is a long way from the UK.

Why? It only means there's more CO2 to offset. As long as it's commercially viable, it will happen. That's precisely what Net Zero is meant to achieve.

 

[Steveml63]

Hi
Earlier on this thread I mentioned the abundance of very cheap Chinese cars that are being sold in our market of the UAE.
There is a website called Drivearabia.com that lists all the brands and models available in this country (and the surrounding countries) along with local pricing.
Out of interest, I looked on there and listed all the Chinese brands that are available here (i also know a few new brands that have not even made this website yet!
Here is the list below - how many are sold in Europe and you have heard of, I wonder?
BAIC (make a copy of the Mercedes G Wagen)
Bestune
Borgward
Brilliance
BYD
Changan
Chery
DFSK
Dongfeng
FAW
Forthing
GAC
Great Wall
Haval
Hongqi
JAC
Jetour (their T2 is a very popular Defender copy that sells for equivalent of £31,000)
Kaiyi
King Long
Lynk & Co
Maxus
MG (their cheapest MG4 EV sells for £22,000 here and the X-Power fast one for £29,400)
Nio
Omoda
Polestar
Rox
Seres
Skywell
Soueast
Tank
VGV
Xpeng
Zeekr

Quite a list!

 

[Steveml63]

This is an advert that just popped up on my instagram - as I mentioned BAIC in my above post!
Does this vehicle look familiar??

 

[markjay]

This is an advert that just popped up on my instagram - as I mentioned BAIC in my above post!
Does this vehicle look familiar??
View attachment 165507

B-Wagon...?

 

[Steveml63]

Unfortunate name - BJ wagon!

 

[ChipChop]

Au contraire. How did you reach that conclusion?

A product made X number of thousand of miles away has a much higher carbon footprint than the same product made 'locally'. Schemes such as carbon offsetting, paying to pollute by any other name, are often nothing more than exercises in greenwashing.

 

[markjay]

A product made X number of thousand of miles away has a much higher carbon footprint than the same product made 'locally'. Schemes such as carbon offsetting, paying to pollute by any other name, are often nothing more than exercises in greenwashing.

Sir is in favour of Net Zero, then?

 

[ALFAitalia]

This is an advert that just popped up on my instagram - as I mentioned BAIC in my above post!
Does this vehicle look familiar??
View attachment 165507

10 year bumper to bumper warranty will help it sell to people with no taste (hello G Wagon owners !) that's for sure.

 

[markjay]

10 year bumper to bumper warranty will help it sell to people with no taste (hello G Wagon owners !) that's for sure.

Kia did manage to get a foothold in the UK at the time by offering a previously-unheard-of 7 years warranty (I believe they offered 10 years in the US).

 

[Pontoneer]

Feel free to rattle off all the carbon neutral products China imports to the UK. They have been shipping their crap over here for a good few decades now.

I like to order Chinese takeaway , but no more than about once a month .

And an hour after you’ve stuffed yourself , you always feel hungry again . Not sure why that is .