The EV fact thread

[Dryce]

Boxing Day trip out to visit Daughter and SiL. Full charge over night. Pre-conditioned the car 15 minutes before so nice and toasty when we set off, heater/steering wheel heating/bum warmers on full. Drove 70 miles there, mix of M way and A roads, beat up a few middle-age boy racers on the twisty bits and M way. Arrived, had a lovely lunch and catch up. Pre-conditioned the car 15 minutes before setting off to return so nice and toasty as we waved goodbye. Drove 70 miles back, heater/wheel steering heating/bum warmers on full. Beat up a few middle-age boy racers on the twisty bits and M way.

Got home, plugged the car in, went inside and had a lovely evening.

These ev cars are tough to live with, but we are determined to make the effort…..

Trip out to see SiL and also nephew who is celebrating 40th. Started out with 126 miles range showing on the app in the afternoon. 28 miles round trip - but stopped off at Costco on way back for 5 minutes. Then stopped off at home to pick up some stuff and head up to north east of Scotland to see aged relative who was in hospital Christmas day. 187 miles in 3 hours 20 mins. No congestion - straight run on Dual carriageway and single carriageway A roads up the A9 at NSL barring a few roundabouts and delay behind couple of commercial vehicles.

Car left on street. App currently shows 396 miles range remaining. More than enough to get home - and possibly back up north again if required - given that there's probably another 30 to 40 on top of what is actually showing.

It's a hard life nurturing a 2.3 tonne wagon equipped with an 85 litre tank and a 3 litre 6 pot lump - up and over the highlands on a winter night.

But some of us have to do it.

 

[BTB 500]

Trip out to see SiL and also nephew who is celebrating 40th. Started out with 126 miles range showing on the app in the afternoon. 28 miles round trip - but stopped off at Costco on way back for 5 minutes. Then stopped off at home to pick up some stuff and head up to north east of Scotland to see aged relative who was in hospital Christmas day. 187 miles in 3 hours 20 mins. No congestion - straight run on Dual carriageway and single carriageway A roads up the A9 at NSL barring a few roundabouts and delay behind couple of commercial vehicles.

Car left on street. App currently shows 396 miles range remaining. More than enough to get home - and possibly back up north again if required - given that there's probably another 30 to 40 on top of what is actually showing.

It's a hard life nurturing a 2.3 tonne wagon equipped with an 85 litre tank and a 3 litre 6 pot lump - up and over the highlands on a winter night.

But some of us have to do it.

At the other end of the scale we've been doing lots of very short local trips recently, which combined with the cold weather has had a terrible effect on the range. We've only managed 360 miles since the last top up, and it's already showing just a third remaining. If only we could plug it into the mains or something at home - as it is we're probably going to have to put in another 30 litres or so of unleaded sometime in the next few weeks, which will be terribly inconvenient. Obviously starting a cold engine every time is a big worry too ... it's only lasted 15 years so far, and this could finish it off. The other thing is that we have to drive half a mile before the heater is blasting out hot air ... that's if we can't be bothered to start it up a minute or two before leaving of course.

In all seriousness having a 'city car' for the last 6 weeks has been a bit of an eye opener and we've been using it for all our local errands - even fetching sacks of feed from the local country store! It's done several much longer runs (100+ miles) as well, and despite being small and relatively basic compared to our MBs it's fun to drive, decently refined, and quite nippy. We've carried 4 adults in it a number of times with no problem at all - it is only a 4 seater, so there's plenty of room in the back (it also has 4 doors which is very convenient).

As an additional vehicle though it would be an extravagance - just using a little more fuel in another vehicle we're already taxing & insuring would cost less. Despite being a sub £1500 car with low running costs (group 2 insurance, £20 road tax, ULEZ exempt).

 

[SpikyMikey]

Trip out to see SiL and also nephew who is celebrating 40th. Started out with 126 miles range showing on the app in the afternoon. 28 miles round trip - but stopped off at Costco on way back for 5 minutes. Then stopped off at home to pick up some stuff and head up to north east of Scotland to see aged relative who was in hospital Christmas day. 187 miles in 3 hours 20 mins. No congestion - straight run on Dual carriageway and single carriageway A roads up the A9 at NSL barring a few roundabouts and delay behind couple of commercial vehicles.

Car left on street. App currently shows 396 miles range remaining. More than enough to get home - and possibly back up north again if required - given that there's probably another 30 to 40 on top of what is actually showing.

It's a hard life nurturing a 2.3 tonne wagon equipped with an 85 litre tank and a 3 litre 6 pot lump - up and over the highlands on a winter night.

But some of us have to do it.

It sounds like I'm going to have to move back to Scotland. It takes the best part of 3 hours for me to do the 108 miles to the office thanks to the stupid M25 and M4.

 

[chic0821]

It sounds like I'm going to have to move back to Scotland. It takes the best part of 3 hours for me to do the 108 miles to the office thanks to the stupid M25 and M4.

But if you move up to Scotland, surely it will take you longer than the 3hrs to get to your office. Just saying!!!

 

[Will]

It sounds like I'm going to have to move back to Scotland. It takes the best part of 3 hours for me to do the 108 miles to the office thanks to the stupid M25 and M4.

I wish I could average 36mph on my commute!

 

[SpikyMikey]

But if you move up to Scotland, surely it will take you longer than the 3hrs to get to your office. Just saying!!!

You've found the flaw in an otherwise damn fine plan

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I wish I could average 36mph on my commute!

An average not less than 85 mph is where it’s at

 

[Pontoneer]

How old are your devices, can they be fixed/repaired?

I’m using an iPhone 13 at the moment.

I’m using an iPhone 5S : it does everything I need of it , has never gone wrong and it is not stupidly large ( and fragile ) as so many phones are nowadays , hence it easily fits into any pocket . I would also suspect it is not so attractive to thieves as later phones are .

I wouldn’t hazard a guess where it was made , and I don’t particularly care .

I did continue to take upgrade phones on my contract , for a while but these later phones were for other family members . I eventually reached a point where we had enough phones around the house , and changed service providers as I was long out of contract and could get unlimited everything on a cheaper deal elsewhere .

Oddly enough , my son wanted a new phone for Christmas , and after shopping around , I got him an iPhone 12PRO for £9 down and a fiver less per month than I’m currently paying . He has his own SIM on a month by month contract , so I just gave him the phone and am about to port my number over to the new SIM and cancel my old one . I offered him the choice of various models but that was what he chose . Because it was actually saving me money rather than costing me , I also got him an endurance race at the karting circuit , where he gets a full 60minutes of track time .

Oddly enough , after his iPhone 8 ( one of my upgrade phones ) broke again after the umpteenth new screen , he has just lately been using my old iPhone5 and tells me that many of the kids in his school use iPhone4 and 5 models because they just don’t break and are considered ‘cool’ .

 

[Pontoneer]

An augment can be made that new cars are well on the way to becoming gadgets. Witness the increasing importance now attached to the interior, size of the touch screen and the number of electronic aids compared to the way a car actually drives. The reason is probably that A to B motorists would now be hard put to find a new car that doesn't do A to B adequately so that interiors and toys have become the differentiator. One problem seems to be that gadgets and electronic aids are manufacturer/regulatory driven rather than customer driven. I've lost count of the number of road tests I've read that reported things such as a lack of physical buttons and lane assist as over intrusive and a pain in ar$e not least because they are not always easy to turn off. Why buy a new car if you have turn off some features you paid for before it's fit to drive

There is still some but very limited choice with only one or two brands such as Dacia focusing on a back to basics approach with limited gadgets. What you can't seem to have is high quality and simplicity at the same time. That must be one of the factors driving the increased interest in used cars rather than new cars.

Why British drivers no longer want a new car

You can have high quality and simplicity at the same time : just run a classic car .

 

[Pontoneer]

Inspired by your comment @190 but not replying to you.

Most changes to cars which have been driven by manufacturers (and their technology partners) and regulation are for the better. At the time they was introduced, advances such as seat belts, ABS, airbags, unleaded petrol, satnav, electric windows were all seen as unnecessary.

With time comes familiarity and most people wouldn’t be without them, but I bet there are still a minority who argues against them (albeit mostly for sport). True we could function without any of them, but would it be necessary to do so, and more importantly would we be wise to?

I remember my Dad saying CD’s were expensive, unnecessary, and were only a passing phase because they would be replaced by something else. He was right on all counts, but if we all waited for the next generation of technology, then there would be insufficient investment to create it.

I also remember him saying that electric windows are to be avoided, because they’re expensive, they break, they’re expensive to repair, and you can’t repair the motor on the drive with a spanner. He was right too, but even so, with time and familiarity he drives cars with electric windows now.

I wonder whether those who warn against the expense and fragility of EVs and their battery packs will be driving EVs in the future when time and familiarity mean that it’s normal. For a large number of people driving an EV is completely normal already.

Electric windows , as an example , are a marketing thing , and in particular a UK thing .

It has been a while since I was in Germany , but over there it was not unusual to see Mercedes cars , even S Classes with wind up windows , cloth seats and very basic spec , which would never be offered here in the UK . Germans just think of Mercedes as solid reliable and safe cars ; here they are marketed as something more exclusive than they are seen as on the continent. Keeping up with the Joneses is a powerful motivator here .

 

[Pontoneer]

I think the article is interesting and you can read/interpret the data in several different ways.

Is it possible that rather than people’s preferences for driving an older car, the buying patterns are related to finances?

I mean, over the years there have been various recessions and world economic situations that affect sales.

Or maybe cars built in the last 10/20 years are generally just more durable than those built previously. I mean, 2004 cars to me seem pretty modern and solid, some have many of the features you come to expect nowadays and I guess people see little reason to upgrade, especially if money is tight.

At one point I’m sure some people were happy with their monochrome display phones with keypads, as they only wanted to make calls and text. Now almost everyone has a smartphone.

People will get used to it in time. Rather than the focus on buttons or touch screens, cars will be (and already are beginning to) driving themselves soon - It’s natural evolution of transport.

Ok , just sticking to M-B , but I feel that my 80’s and 90’s cars are modern and have everything they need , besides being better cars and nicer to be in than the junk that so many people drive nowadays .

I of course am rapidly running out of my sixties and will retire before long , my main concern is just to keep my current car (W124) running , and maybe when I retire , to add something like a R129 as a plaything ; unless I decide to get something significantly older as the hobby car .

 

[clk320x]

You can have high quality and simplicity at the same time : just run a classic car .

No offence but 99% of people don’t want the hassle/bother of running an old classic.

The safety & convenience of a modern car can never be matched by a classic.

Of course enthusiasts such as ourselves love them, and would gladly own one as a 2nd, 3rd or 4th vehicle, but the number of people who would want to drive a classic daily is minuscule.

In the nicest way possible, I’m trying to give you a reality check here.

 

[Pontoneer]

As someone who spent most of his working life in IT, I have to disagree. There's no built-in obsolescence in Ms-DOS, Windows, or MacOS. They fall from grace due to normal market forces, like everything else.

People buy new IT equipment all the time, and the new kit is bundled with the latest OS. As old kit is replaced, there are less and less PCs around with the older versions of the OS. It gets to a point where hardware manufacturers and software developers stop making products that are compatible with the older versions of the OS, simply because there are just not enough of them left in circulation to make the development commercially viable.

Owners of older PCs then find themselves running an OS for which won't allow them to replace the old printer with new, or use some new piece of software, or install a modern antivirus, etc. But this obsolescence has nothing to do with the OS' vendor.

In fact, I used to support CNC machines, that had a built-in Windows 3.11 server, for around 20 years after the last version of Windows 3.1.1 was released. These machines were not connected to the LAN or to the outside world, and so there was no issue with viruses or Service Packs etc (there was a DOS gateway to a standalone PC that was opened when needed for dumping scripts from the PC to the CNC machine).

The same applies to many items in our daily lives - when less people have them, it becomes commercially uneconomical to make parts or provide services for them. It's as simple as that.

I currently run a 2008 Mac Pro , and a 2009 MacBook Pro , both bought at a couple of years old to replace my previous models . Both run on the El Capitan OS and the MP in particular still fulfills all the tasks I bought it for : video and photo editing it runs Final Cut Pro , Photoshop, Lightroom as well as the day it was built ; it had space for the PCIe cards for my Matrox capture hardware , and for the eSATA cards for some of my RAID arrays ( in which I’ve had to replace a few spinning discs down the years , but SSDs are still expensive ) ; I also have a lot of FW800 external drives and RAID arrays , besides my DV/DVCAM/HDV/XDCAM decks all connect by FW400 for direct capture . My inkjet , laser and dye-sublimation printers all work fine but I noticed recently that all of my scanners have stopped working ( it is a software thing as I downloaded a trial version of Vue Scan and they all started working again ) .

It is when one goes online that the problems begin ; I can’t upgrade the OS without upgrading the computer , and many websites no longer support the browsers I can run ; Adobe no longer support updates for my OS and there are just a lot of things I can no longer do .

I can’t complain : the computer is now 16 years old and although expensive when I got it , it has served me well , so the time has now come to upgrade .

I could , for very little money , upgrade to one of the 2012 , 12 core versions of the same machine ( mine is 2008 and 8 core ) , but that would offer limited benefits . The replacement series , known as the ‘trashcan’ has no PCI slots and is limited in other ways , so I am now seriously looking at the 2019 series MacPro tower units , which again offer 8 PCI slots and very impressive spec .

I’m still looking at specs and assessing my needs ; I’ve already learned that the very latest ones with ‘silicon’ technology don’t support legacy software I might still want to run , so I’m not rushing into this , but expect to make the change sometime this year .

I can still keep my old computer hanging on the network for legacy stuff , just as I still have a PowerMac G5 , and upstairs in a box even my old G4 . The idea is to move on without sacrificing things I might still want , like for example the ability to burn CD/DVD/BluRay discs . Yes I still use them .

 

[Pontoneer]

Do you avoid petrol stations selling oil that comes from Saudi Arabia?

I do if I can get fuel cheaper somewhere else , I always shop around for the lowest prices .

 

[Pontoneer]

No - I disagree.

The two aspects we are seeing change are that large suppliers are becoming more didactic about support periods and updates. And that there are more dependencies

There is a balance of power aspect.

So if you have - say an Adobe subscription - if Adobe say decide to ditch Windows 10 for retail customers then you can't stop paying them - because you're not getting the benefit - but keep using the software un-updated. You have to keep paying the subscription.

This means that incumbent suppliers can dictate obsolescence on their terms.

With Adobe , it’s not just that I can’t update : if I stop paying my CC subscription then my already out of date software will stop working after 30 days .

I can’t even revert to the Creative Suite software that I paid a lot of money for because , despite having the original discs and serial numbers , they turned off the activation servers a while back . Also the older software does not support CameraRAW for some of my newer cameras .

This is why I always keep my older computers which have the legacy software installed and activated on them , and have backup HDDs in them with the activated software there too .

It’s a vicious circle with computer manufacturers and software providers conspiring to force otherwise contented people to keep spending money .

 

[Pontoneer]

All subscription-based software products will automatically entitle the user to the latest versions as they are released, and so the question of obsolescence becomes irrelevant.

The user can, alternatively, purchase a 'perpetual license' (either FPP or ESD), instead of a 'Cloud subscription', for a one-off fee, and they can then keep on using (legally) the version that they bought, indefinitely.

(I used to sell software for a living... )

The subscription May entitle you to the update , but if your hardware or OS are no longer supported , you can’t download it . If you then cancel your subscription your outdated software then stops working .

 

[markjay]

I do if I can get fuel cheaper somewhere else , I always shop around for the lowest prices .

But how do you know where the fuel in the pump is coming from?

 

[SmartAmg]

But how do you know where the fuel in the pump is coming from?

Tesco's?

 

[Pontoneer]

Another day with lots of driving, albeit our FIAT 500e EV was weapon of choice for much of it. Lots of relatively short journeys are perfect for an EV. I hate the thought of starting and stopping a cold ICE engine, and I shudder at doing it several times.

I’m heading up to Glasgow to collect No1 son , so I shall take the train !

 

[Pontoneer]

My Leaf is basically a 15 year old design and you press a button on the app and it's lovely and toasty with it's electric heater when you get in it.

We have now discovered that SWMMMBO Hybrid Sportage does not have a electric heater in any shape or form. So you can do a 5 mile round trip without the petrol engine kicking in whatsoever which equates to zero cabin heat

Quality !

Probably designed by someone in a warm climate