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The EV fact thread

Buddy of mine had been talking of buying a second hand Tesla over the last few weeks when I’d seen him , yesterday he said it wouldn’t be happening after doing a test insurance quote .
His current 2019 Volvo petrol £160pa , the Tesla £2500 :eek:
 
My friend has a similar experience with his Tesla, Max NCD and 40 trouble free motoring, he was still quoted over £1250 ( Cheapest ) .....

The SL500 i own is £170 fully comp with AA breakdown and all the usual extra stuff - I shall be keeping the SL :cool:

* I have a feeling that this is not just a TELSA issue per se, But EV's in general ??
 
My friend has a similar experience with his Tesla, Max NCD and 40 trouble free motoring, he was still quoted over £1250 ( Cheapest ) .....

The SL500 i own is £170 fully comp with AA breakdown and all the usual extra stuff - I shall be keeping the SL :cool:

* I have a feeling that this is not just a TELSA issue per se, But EV's in general ??

It's probably a combination of the supercar-like performance, and the high cost of accident repairs and write-offs due to uncertainty regarding the battery condition following even a relatively minor shunt.
 
I agree with you on the battery front, all of my EV vans carry a much bigger premium than the previous ICE vehicles we used to run a decade ago ( Yes 10 years being fully EV !! )

The SL500 would probably be written off if it was badly scratched :eek:
 
My friend has a similar experience with his Tesla, Max NCD and 40 trouble free motoring, he was still quoted over £1250 ( Cheapest ) .....

The SL500 i own is £170 fully comp with AA breakdown and all the usual extra stuff - I shall be keeping the SL :cool:

* I have a feeling that this is not just a TELSA issue per se, But EV's in general ??
Apparently the insurance company said that even small accidents can write off the battery .
 
Apparently the insurance company said that even small accidents can write off the battery .

That might well be true, who knows?
But one thing is for sure, it doesn't take much for the robbing bastards to fleece
the motorist at every opportunity. Personally don't believe it. 🙄🤪
 
Getting an all-electric Hyundai Kona as courtesy car next week - will report back....

So......

The Kona was fine, 24-plate, no complaints (if you can look beyond the unsightly exterior). Had it for 3 weeks.

Collected my IONIQ 5 yesterday, apparently the battery pack was replaced, which is as expected. The car was 95% charged on collection and the dash showed 275 miles range, and so it seems that everything is back to normal now 👍

I don't know if a new battery pack was fitted, or a refurbished one, but given that the car goes back to Hyundai Finance in 6 month's time, it's a moot point anyway. However, even if it was my car, and they fitted a refurbished battery, with over 4 years warranty remaining on the battery (the original warranty is 8 years) I'd hardly have a reason to complain.

It is interesting that changing the battery pack requires specialised tools and certified technicians that the dealerships do not have, which is why the car had to go back to Hyundai UK. I am guessing that at current a battery failure just isn't a common enough occurrence to commercially justify the expense of having tools and trained staff at each dealership, but this may change over time as more new EVs hit the road.

My thoughts are that until EV batteries become cheaper, due to companies learning how to refurbish them, and the skills required to replace them become more commonplace, I wouldn't want to own an EV whose battery isn't covered by warranty, either the manufacturer's warranty or an aftermarket warranty.

We've been making ICE cars for 150 years, and even backstreet garages know how to rebuild an engine, but we only had EVs for 15 years... I suppose it will take time before we'll see local firms up and down the country offering refurbished batteries and motors, just like the multitude of companies currently offering reconditioned engines or rebuilt transmissions.
 
On another note... I have to say that both the dealer and Hyundai UK were very good with dealing with this issue, no complaints. I am quite impressed with their customer services.

I found in the car some documents from Hyundai UK that were meant for the dealer, containing some general instructions, including a clause that says that if the car was away for 90 days or more, and a service fell due during this period, then the dealer must complete the missed service before returning the vehicle to the customer - at no cost to the customer. Which I thought was a nice thing to do (though it didn't apply in my case).

Fat chance getting a free service from MB... :D
 
Collected my IONIQ 5 yesterday, apparently the battery pack was replaced, which is as expected. The car was 95% charged on collection and the dash showed 275 miles range, and so it seems that everything is back to normal now 👍

Great that you got it back but any idea why this took so long (getting on for 2 months?)? In theory swapping the battery pack should be quick & easy :dk: for a site with expert staff and the right facilities. Transporting the car to Hyundai UK should only have added a trivial amount of time.


We've been making ICE cars for 150 years, and even backstreet garages know how to rebuild an engine, but we only had EVs for 15 years... I suppose it will take time before we'll see local firms up and down the country offering refurbished batteries and motors, just like the multitude of companies currently offering reconditioned engines or rebuilt transmissions.

As previously discussed though it's not really the same thing. If a low mileage ICE engine fails then once the failed part/parts have been replaced (often with upgraded ones designed to prevent a recurrence of the issue) it's essentially good as new.

If some cells in a low mileage battery fail then replacing the affected module(s) with new will 'fix' it in the short term, but the hundreds (or thousands) of other cells in there almost certainly came from the same manufacturer and batch and have led an identical life in terms of age, charge/discharge cycles & rates & temperatures, depth of discharge, time left standing unused, etc. So it's quite likely that some of those will start failing too. Which is probably why manufacturers seem to fit new packs while under warranty, and why aftermarket companies in the US typically don't give any warranty on the 'repairs' they do to older EVs.


I found in the car some documents from Hyundai UK that were meant for the dealer, containing some general instructions, including a clause that says that if the car was away for 90 days or more ...

Having a defined policy is good but does suggest they are expecting some warranty repairs to take 3 months or more??
 
Great that you got it back but any idea why this took so long (getting on for 2 months?)? In theory swapping the battery pack should be quick & easy :dk: for a site with expert staff and the right facilities. Transporting the car to Hyundai UK should only have added a trivial amount of time.

You'd think that... but the amount of admin around the warranty repair was incredible.

Firstly, the dealer took one week trying to troubleshoot the issue. First couple of days they tried charging the car in various ways, then they told me that they opened a technical case with Hyundai and were instructed to carry out various software updates - each time trying to charge the car again. I could see this activity on my app.

It was one week before the dealer told me that Hyundai's tech dept diagnosed the fault as a faulty battery cell, and that the car will need to go to Hyundai UK (I knew from the beginning that it was faulty cell... many posts about it on various EV car forums, not just Hyundai, but I suppose that the techs need to adhere to their standard protocol).

Then, it was another week before the car arrived at Hyundai UK (again, as seen on the app), and another week before the car got disconnected from the app - presumably that's when the techs at Hyunday UK shut down the car's electrical systems in preparation for the 'transplant' .

I don't think that replacing the battery pack on an EV is 'quick & easy' - the removal and refitting of a battery weighing hundreds of kilos from under the car will require special hydraulic equipment, trained staff, and many safety procedures that will need to be followed. Then, there's the draining and refilling of the coolant fluid, electrical connectors, computer adjustment, testing.... I can't imagine that it can be done in less than three days, possibly more if adding a charging cycle and road testing, and will require a minimum of two trained staff (for safety reasons). But this is just my guess.

Either way, the actual labour time is obviously not the reason for the long process. I don't know if working on the car was delayed because they were waiting for spare parts that weren't in stock, or because of issues with availability of the lift bay and/or trained staff.

The other perplexing thing is that according to the paperwork I found in the car, the vehicle was picked up from Hyundai UK on 13th March, and dropped-off at the dealer on 26th March. I have no idea why it took one week for the car to travel from the dealer to Hyundai UK, and nearly two weeks to travel back, especially given that the distance between the two locations is only 50 miles...

Hyundai were definitely dragging their heels with this process, which is odd given that I had a loan car, that presumably they'd want back as soon as possible.

As previously discussed though it's not really the same thing. If a low mileage ICE engine fails then once the failed part/parts have been replaced (often with upgraded ones designed to prevent a recurrence of the issue) it's essentially good as new.

If some cells in a low mileage battery fail then replacing the affected module(s) with new will 'fix' it in the short term, but the hundreds (or thousands) of other cells in there almost certainly came from the same manufacturer and batch and have led an identical life in terms of age, charge/discharge cycles & rates & temperatures, depth of discharge, time left standing unused, etc. So it's quite likely that some of those will start failing too. Which is probably why manufacturers seem to fit new packs while under warranty, and why aftermarket companies in the US typically don't give any warranty on the 'repairs' they do to older EVs.

I don't know much about battery technology, but a quick Google brought up a few companies that offer EV battery repairs here in the UK, see for example Electric and Hybrid Battery Repairs | Cedar Electric | Worthing , so I guess that there's a market out there.

Having a defined policy is good but does suggest they are expecting some warranty repairs to take 3 months or more??

Maybe it's indeed rare, which is why they are being so generous.. :D

But it can certainly happen - I remember when MB had the Piezo Diesel injectors fiasco, cars were stacked up at the dealerships for months waiting for new injectors to be manufactured (by the Delphi Diesel Systems factory in Blois, France). So probably not common, but it can certainly happen.

In any event, Hyundai's offer is quite generous, given that a 'big' service (spark plugs, filters, ATF, etc) can be expensive. My point was that Hyundai's customer services are better than MB's, at least based on members' posts on this forum.
 
The BBC were mentioning, in passing, that Canada has quietly shelved the ability of EV manufacturers to "share" or "pool" EV credits with ICE manufacturers.

Which means that companies like....say, Tesla, will no longer be able to "pool" their EV credits with companies like Stellantis etc.

Subtle change, if true, but a significant loss of profit & revenue for Tesla etc.

Once Canada do it, won't be long before organisations like the EU follow suit....
 
I don't know much about battery technology, but a quick Google brought up a few companies that offer EV battery repairs here in the UK, see for example Electric and Hybrid Battery Repairs | Cedar Electric | Worthing , so I guess that there's a market out there.

There's been a market in the US (largely for older Teslas) for some time, but there have been some issues (the largest company had their premises burn down 3? times in as many years - storing and working on batteries that are known to be faulty is fundamentally hazardous). As mentioned when I looked at these US companies a little while back they didn't appear to guarantee repaired packs (apart from one company which offered a subscription service that would replace them if they failed - you were essentially buying insurance).

A quick look at the UK company you found suggests they guarantee Tesla battery repairs (quoted typical cost £5,200) for 12 months, but it's not clear whether that applies to the whole battery or just the bits they replaced. There's no mention of a warranty on other battery repairs, and their general Ts & Cs say:

1743273012921.png

So it could be just 30 days.
 
Buddy of mine had been talking of buying a second hand Tesla over the last few weeks when I’d seen him , yesterday he said it wouldn’t be happening after doing a test insurance quote .
His current 2019 Volvo petrol £160pa , the Tesla £2500 :eek:
Sheesh.

Had to check this out, benchmarking it against my 320i touring: what price to get a Hyundai Ioniq5 Ultimate or Tesla S 100D

Phew.... According to Aviva, it's a £20 refund to get a Hyundai for the remaining six months of the policy, or an extra £40 to cover a Tesla S 100D.

As always, it's all about the individual and his insurance record.
 
As an aside, we saw a new looking Nissan Ariya EV (had to Google this as I'd never heard of it!) apparently unable to restart after being stationary on the M6 for about 90 mins today. We were in the centre lane and it was ahead of us in lane 3 ... when the traffic re-started it never moved. I looked back when we were some distance away and saw the headlights flash briefly but it was still in the same place with traffic stacked up behind it :dk:

Was a bit of a nightmare - a jack-knifed HGV had taken out a length of central reservation barrier and felled a couple of lamp poles, as well as dumping diesel all over the carriageway. They closed the motorway (including lane 3 of the opposite carriageway) for emergency repairs. Fortunately nobody hurt AFAIK.

1743275323059.png
 
Sheesh.

Had to check this out, benchmarking it against my 320i touring: what price to get a Hyundai Ioniq5 Ultimate or Tesla S 100D

Phew.... According to Aviva, it's a £20 refund to get a Hyundai for the remaining six months of the policy, or an extra £40 to cover a Tesla S 100D.

As always, it's all about the individual and his insurance record.
Very weird , my buddy is a details guy as well !
 
There's been a market in the US (largely for older Teslas) for some time, but there have been some issues (the largest company had their premises burn down 3? times in as many years - storing and working on batteries that are known to be faulty is fundamentally hazardous). As mentioned when I looked at these US companies a little while back they didn't appear to guarantee repaired packs (apart from one company which offered a subscription service that would replace them if they failed - you were essentially buying insurance).

A quick look at the UK company you found suggests they guarantee Tesla battery repairs (quoted typical cost £5,200) for 12 months, but it's not clear whether that applies to the whole battery or just the bits they replaced. There's no mention of a warranty on other battery repairs, and their general Ts & Cs say:

View attachment 169572

So it could be just 30 days.

I think it depends on whether they sell also to consumers or to trade only.

If the former, then the statutory consumer rights still apply, essentially overriding the 30 days warranty.

In any event, it's an emerging market. Competition will eventually drive these companies to factor-in into the battery price the cost of longer warranties.
 
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Very weird , my buddy is a details guy as well !
But is he a geriatric Londoner who hasn't made a claim for 45 years ?

Have you tried running the numbers for yourself ?
 
Sheesh.

Had to check this out, benchmarking it against my 320i touring: what price to get a Hyundai Ioniq5 Ultimate or Tesla S 100D

Phew.... According to Aviva, it's a £20 refund to get a Hyundai for the remaining six months of the policy, or an extra £40 to cover a Tesla S 100D.

As always, it's all about the individual and his insurance record.
Yes, I think it's all about the individual and cars.
Casting around a little early for insurance for my two (not due until July) the i3 was coming in about £250 and the Bentley about £1200:eek:
From that you can obviously spot which one is the EV....:dk:
Only about 10% of companies would consider the Bentley. LV, who I'd been with for decades just said they would not do it!
Previously I was paying about £400 for the Macan!
 
So......

The Kona was fine, 24-plate, no complaints (if you can look beyond the unsightly exterior). Had it for 3 weeks.

Collected my IONIQ 5 yesterday, apparently the battery pack was replaced, which is as expected. The car was 95% charged on collection and the dash showed 275 miles range, and so it seems that everything is back to normal now 👍

I don't know if a new battery pack was fitted, or a refurbished one, but given that the car goes back to Hyundai Finance in 6 month's time, it's a moot point anyway. However, even if it was my car, and they fitted a refurbished battery, with over 4 years warranty remaining on the battery (the original warranty is 8 years) I'd hardly have a reason to complain.

It is interesting that changing the battery pack requires specialised tools and certified technicians that the dealerships do not have, which is why the car had to go back to Hyundai UK. I am guessing that at current a battery failure just isn't a common enough occurrence to commercially justify the expense of having tools and trained staff at each dealership, but this may change over time as more new EVs hit the road.

My thoughts are that until EV batteries become cheaper, due to companies learning how to refurbish them, and the skills required to replace them become more commonplace, I wouldn't want to own an EV whose battery isn't covered by warranty, either the manufacturer's warranty or an aftermarket warranty.

We've been making ICE cars for 150 years, and even backstreet garages know how to rebuild an engine, but we only had EVs for 15 years... I suppose it will take time before we'll see local firms up and down the country offering refurbished batteries and motors, just like the multitude of companies currently offering reconditioned engines or rebuilt transmissions.
Epic fail. Four years in and required a massively costly battery replacement. Is anyone prepared to defend this?
 

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