The EV fact thread

[ALFAitalia]

The other way around for me....EV for long boring motorway trips where you would save more on fuel......lighter, better handing, better sounding car for local fun and back road blasts!!!! So two cars that are good at there job.....rather than a poor compromise.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Surely local trips on battery plugged in overnight cheap as chips and zero emission is good, then you have petrol for the longer motorway trips where electricity is not much different in price to petrol and no range anxiety? Seems best of both worlds to me

Owners of the 530e, 330e and Golf GTE don't - generally - seem to report significantly lower mpg than their pure petrol equivalents, unless they really are only doing short local trips all the time.

That said, there's an argument that they're getting better performance, but what's the real life relevance of a faster 0-60 if you're mainly going the supermarket and local golf club?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The other way around for me....EV for long boring motorway trips where you would save more on fuel......lighter, better handing, better sounding car for local fun and back road blasts!!!! So two cars that are good at there job.....rather than a poor compromise.

We have the solution sir, if you can just sign at the bottom of this, Sir.

A £25k Tesla S 75D for your motorway trips - 250 mile range- , and a £25k Alfa GTV for local work.

(The Alfa comes with free AA membership)

Suits you, Sir !

 

[philnewmerc]

Owners of the 530e, 330e and Golf GTE don't - generally - seem to report significantly lower mpg than their pure petrol equivalents, unless they really are only doing short local trips all the time.

That said, there's an argument that they're getting better performance, but what's the real life relevance of a faster 0-60 if you're mainly going the supermarket and local golf club?

I had a GTE for a while when they were brand new. I can't remember the fuel economy but is was not good, e.g. mid 30s. The electric range was advertised as about 30 but I rarely saw more than 15 mile, but that was enough to go the the train station... Still, the saving in driving 4 miles every now and then on battery is minute i suppose

 

[philnewmerc]

Both Audi and BMW have something non-SUV to offer. Whether they're any good remains to be seen.

But definitely, avoid the Porsche Taycan that routinely loses half its value in twelve months

View attachment 150288

Just been on Autotrader (got overexcited think they were going to be within grasp soon) and they seem to be about 1/2 price at 3 years... which is pretty typical of any new car isn't it?

 

[markjay]

ICE cars retain their value well. You'll struggle to find one at 3 years old, and if you do then you'll need to pay for it a whopping 50% of the original purchase price when new.

In contrast, EVs drop in price like a free-falling lift, the forecourts are full of 3-years old EVs that the dealers can't shift, you can easily bag a great bargain paying just half of what the car cost when new.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Sorry......but as of a couple of months ago all of the top ten UKs fastest depreciating cars were EV!

Top 10 most-depreciating second-hand cars last month were all EVs

According to AutoTrader, all 10 of the most-depreciating used cars last month were all electric - we reveal the battery models that have shed the most value.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[Dryce]

Owners of the 530e, 330e and Golf GTE don't - generally - seem to report significantly lower mpg than their pure petrol equivalents, unless they really are only doing short local trips all the time.

Generally - the HEV/MHEV hybrids I've used haven't seemed to be that good in terms of mpg.

(Exceptions IME: Previous generation Ioniq and current Jazz).

Which IMO is another reason the PHEV might be a better ownership solution for owners with usage patterns that suit.

Subject to cost a PHEV with actual 50 mile range and a small ICE (with maybe 35 litre or 40 litre tank) to cruise on long distances might be a mundane and dull vehicle to own and drive but might suit a lot of people rather well as their sole or main vehicle.

 

[markjay]

Sorry......but as of a couple of months ago all of the top ten UKs fastest depreciating cars were EV!

Top 10 most-depreciating second-hand cars last month were all EVs

According to AutoTrader, all 10 of the most-depreciating used cars last month were all electric - we reveal the battery models that have shed the most value.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

Maybe it's because they flood the market when they come off lease? Like the Vectra and Mondeos (and C-Class) of old?

I don't think there where many business lease taken out in 2020/2021 (2-3 years ago) for ICE cars.......

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just been on Autotrader (got overexcited think they were going to be within grasp soon) and they seem to be about 1/2 price at 3 years... which is pretty typical of any new car isn't it?

Now compare that GTE's depreciation to that of the GTI or even the modest 1.4 TSI.

I know because I have.

And then there's the weight thing. Which annoys me the most.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

ICE cars retain their value well. You'll struggle to find one at 3 years old, and if you do then you'll need to pay for it a whopping 50% of the original purchase price when new.

In contrast, EVs drop in price like a free-falling lift, the forecourts are full of 3-years old EVs that the dealers can't shift, you can easily bag a great bargain paying just half of what the car cost when new.

Good rhetoric but.... compare the raw depreciation AND the additional cost of finance, of hybrids and their direct petrol, or diesel, equivalents.

It's a no-brainer, the pure ICE doesn't depreciate as much as it's more complex, and originally much more expensive, hybrid equivalent.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Generally - the HEV/MHEV hybrids I've used haven't seemed to be that good in terms of mpg.

(Exceptions IME: Previous generation Ioniq and current Jazz).

Which IMO is another reason the PHEV might be a better ownership solution for owners with usage patterns that suit.

Subject to cost a PHEV with actual 50 mile range and a small ICE (with maybe 35 litre or 40 litre tank) to cruise on long distances might be a mundane and dull vehicle to own and drive but might suit a lot of people rather well as their sole or main vehicle.

Which PHEV's do you think actually have a real world 50 mile range?

Coming one day, maybe, but you won't find many on the used market now.

 

[Petrol Pete]

ICE cars retain their value well. You'll struggle to find one at 3 years old, and if you do then you'll need to pay for it a whopping 50% of the original purchase price when new.

In contrast, EVs drop in price like a free-falling lift, the forecourts are full of 3-years old EVs that the dealers can't shift, you can easily bag a great bargain paying just half of what the car cost when new.

The back lots are full of NEW Ev's that they can not get rid of , nevermind the used ones on the front lots.

 

[Petrol Pete]

As the OP of this 'fact' thread I really shouldnt be doing this , but it is funny (to me ) , It's not fact or opinion ...it's Parody.

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[Dryce]

Which PHEV's do you think actually have a real world 50 mile range?

Coming one day, maybe, but you won't find many on the used market now.

I was making the point that if there was such a product .... not that there is such a product.

(and that miight be a better and more practical product to target in the near term than trying to attack the issue of perceived BEV range with heavier and more expensive BEVs).

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I was making the point that if there was such a product .... not that there is such a product.

(and that miight be a better and more practical product to target in the near term than trying to attack the issue of perceived BEV range with heavier and more expensive BEVs).

Which reminds me of the joy of an Economics education. (I did ten years)

“A ‪‎physicist, an ‪‎engineer and an ‪‎economist are stranded in the desert. They are hungry. Suddenly, they find a can of corn. They want to open it, but how?

The physicist says: “Let’s start a fire and place the can inside the flames. It will explode and then we will all be able to eat”.

“Are you crazy?” says the engineer. “All the corn will burn and scatter, and we’ll have nothing. We should use a metal wire, attach it to a base, push it and crack the can open.”

“Both of you are wrong!” states the economist. “Where the hell do we find a metal wire in the desert?! The solution is simple: ASSUME we have a can opener”…

 

[philnewmerc]

Now compare that GTE's depreciation to that of the GTI or even the modest 1.4 TSI.

I know because I have.

And then there's the weight thing. Which annoys me the most.

I think a fair comparison of 'economy performance' Golfs is GTE vs GTD : there is no difference in depreciation there. They both are holding roughly 1/2 value at 5 years.

The Taycan is holding 1/2 value at 3 years, which though typical of used cars it's not typical of traditional Porches. And if you're loosing £50k after 3 years and your company didn't lease the thing for you then that's about £90k of private pre tax salary up the swanny. Ouch. Still looking forward to my Taycan circa 2030ish

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think a fair comparison of 'economy performance' Golfs is GTE vs GTD : there is no difference in depreciation there. They both are holding roughly 1/2 value at 5 years.

The Taycan is holding 1/2 value at 3 years, which though typical of used cars it's not typical of traditional Porches. And if you're loosing £50k after 3 years and your company didn't lease the thing for you then that's about £90k of private pre tax salary up the swanny. Ouch. Still looking forward to my Taycan circa 2030ish

Yes diesels have collapsed in value. This we know. The Government having subsidised them is now gunning for them, at all levels.

My point was that if you’d bought a straight petrol, you would have lost a great deal less, both as a percentage but especially in absolute pound notes.

Like you, I’ll have a Taycan in a few years time … IF they stop being reliable, IF there are people around who can fix them, and IF the parts shortages disappear. The reason Taycans are rotting on the trees is because owners are dumping them after 6, 12, 18, 24 months….

 

[philnewmerc]

Yes diesels have collapsed in value. This we know. The Government having subsidised them is now gunning for them, at all levels.

My point was that if you’d bought a straight petrol, you would have lost a great deal less, both as a percentage but especially in absolute pound notes.

Like you, I’ll have a Taycan in a few years time … IF they stop being reliable, IF there are people around who can fix them, and IF the parts shortages disappear. The reason Taycans are rotting on the trees is because owners are dumping them after 6, 12, 18, 24 months….

I've just had a look at similar Golf GTis and TSis and there's not a big percentage difference between them and GTEs and GTDs as far as I can see

 

[ALFAitalia]

Stubbled across this on another forum!