The EV fact thread

[philnewmerc]

I'm intruiged how fast EVs and PHEVs are in 0-60. A modest Volvo doing sub 6 second sprints sounds very much my cup of tea tbh.
Not sure how they fair in the 50-70 mph overtake on a country road situation though?

 

[markjay]

Absolutely. My point though is that with an ICE car you may use a little more fuel, which is reflected in your MPG for a particular trip. But with an EV if you spend 45 mins pre-heating the interior and battery just before you leave you need to include this in the cost of the journey - not just the kWh drawn from the battery on the way. It's the latter that owners typically quote.

Understood.

However, these are very marginal cases.

The cabin preheating will only occur in cold weather, and even then only when the driver actually set it up - there will be plenty of cases where the driver forgot or didn't bother.

The battery preheating is something that few cars actually have, and again will only occur in cold weather.

I suspect that on average, taking into account all makes and models of EVs including those that do not have battery preheating, and across all four seasons in the UK, the actual additional cost that is not reflected in the energy consumed during the journey will be insignificant.

 

[Will]

Regards optimistic figures for consumption (whether that be dino juice or kWh!) - don’t we see multiple threads on this very forum whereby people love to claim how great their mpg is on their cars?
Fully warmed up engine, light load, tyres pumped up to the max and reset the indicator on an empty motorway travelling downhill at 56mph just for the purpose of taking a photo!

Come on, we’ve all seen it!

 

[BTB 500]

Regards optimistic figures for consumption (whether that be dino juice or kWh!) - don’t we see multiple threads on this very forum whereby people love to claim how great their mpg is on their cars?
Fully warmed up engine, light load, tyres pumped up to the max and reset the indicator on an empty motorway travelling downhill at 56mph just for the purpose of taking a photo!

Come on, we’ve all seen it!

Haha if you see one from me showing anything over about 33 mpg on the Vito you'll know how I got it then!

Actually I did a 100 mile run to Preston on Saturday morning at -5C to -6.5C all the way and didn't notice any significant difference in mpg compared to the run home again at +2C to -0.5C. Both were around 27-28 mpg, which is fairly normal. At least I was able to use the windscreen washers on the way back though - the reservoir was fine, but the pipes & nozzles froze up on the M6 in the morning. It was filled with pre-mixed solution that was only good to -5C

 

[philnewmerc]

I was thinking what the petrol to EV discussions remind me of... people have mentioned vinyl and CD etc but I would go with:
Film to digital camera: the first adapters got advantages and drawbacks but eventually (i.e. about 20 years later) no one in their right mind would buy a film camera. In fact no one in their right mind would by a camera considering how good phone cameras are! Also, the first 10 year's worth of digital cameras are practically worthless as the tech moved on so fast...

 

[clk320x]

 

[philnewmerc]

Stopping Russia and dubious ME and SA states having so much power would be ideal tbf.
But does this mean I have to stop burning coal in my lovely Victorian fire place and get a bar fire?

 

[Will]

Stopping Russia and dubious ME and SA states having so much power would be ideal tbf.
But does this mean I have to stop burning coal in my lovely Victorian fire place and get a bar fire?

Probably wouldn’t be a bad idea at some point tbh!

 

[Ted]

Aiui you can’t buy house coal anymore - except in the forest of Dean for some reason.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Really?..you can get it around here...in shops and delivered. A quick Google shows loads of suppliers.

 

[Ted]

Strange. Been a while since I’ve seen it. Plenty of smokeless.
Haven’t used coal for years anyway - clags up your chimney or flue something wicked.

This being the fact thread, I take back what I said

 

[ALFAitalia]

It does....but not as fast as wood.

 

[Dryce]

I was thinking what the petrol to EV discussions remind me of... people have mentioned vinyl and CD etc but I would go with:
Film to digital camera: the first adapters got advantages and drawbacks but eventually (i.e. about 20 years later) no one in their right mind would buy a film camera. In fact no one in their right mind would by a camera considering how good phone cameras are! Also, the first 10 year's worth of digital cameras are practically worthless as the tech moved on so fast...

Phone cameras are an example of a mix of genuine advantage / performance and also some hype. So probably not a bad analogy for the EV situation.

Lots of people in their right minds do buy digital cameras. The issue is the commitment to spending money on an expensive camera that is compromised but "good enough" and always available - or spending money on a dedicated device with more capability (and expense) and weight.

I notice there is an article in the Spectator pointing out the drop in EV sales last month.

I've seen the underlying SMMT figures used elsewhere to point out the same issue.

What tends to be overlooked in the media is that the SMMT figures split out hybrids - so yes BEV figures have dropped. But conversely hybrids in various categories - and I think it's significant that PHEVs in particular have increased. So technically EV sales have held up or increased if you include the hybrid variations.

Phone cameras are hybrids. They're successful and ubiquitious as photography devices - a compromise that succeeds despite not being perfect.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I’m not advocating anything - but a lot of what’s posted is just nonsense.

Whether it’s EVs, Clean Air Zones, Vaccines etc…. The internet never fails to disappoint with nonsense.

You missed out Brexit.

House price collapse, inflation, mass emigration, bank closure, loss of tax revenues, queues to get through airports ….

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Phone cameras are an example of a mix of genuine advantage / performance and also some hype. So probably not a bad analogy for the EV situation.

Lots of people in their right minds do buy digital cameras. The issue is the commitment to spending money on an expensive camera that is compromised but "good enough" and always available - or spending money on a dedicated device with more capability (and expense) and weight.

I notice there is an article in the Spectator pointing out the drop in EV sales last month.

I've seen the underlying SMMT figures used elsewhere to point out the same issue.

What tends to be overlooked in the media is that the SMMT figures split out hybrids - so yes BEV figures have dropped. But conversely hybrids in various categories - and I think it's significant that PHEVs in particular have increased. So technically EV sales have held up or increased if you include the hybrid variations.

The Spectator author failed to notice that lease costs for pure BEVs have jumped after this year’s interest rate hikes.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just in from Germany, the car rental firm Sixt is following Hertz in dropping Tesla from its hire care range, due to reliability, maintenance and depreciation concerns.

Still committed to being 100% electric by the end of the decade.

(I’m still finding it difficult to hire BEV’s rather than ICE across Europe. In the case of Sixt, just one in 14 of its vehicles are EV)

Sixt to Phase Out Teslas From Rental Car Fleet on Poor Resale Value

Sixt SE is phasing out Tesla Inc. electric cars from its fleet after the manufacturer’s heavy price cuts hurt residual values at Europe’s biggest car-rental company.

www.bloomberg.com

Sixt to phase out Tesla EVs from its rental fleet
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-on-poor-resale-value?leadSource=uverify wall

 

[BTB 500]

But conversely hybrids in various categories - and I think it's significant that PHEVs in particular have increased.

Could that be down to manufacturers starting to phase out ICE models in the run up to the original 2030 ban, leaving hybrids as the only choice for those who don't want a BEV?

 

[Dryce]

Could that be down to manufacturers starting to phase out ICE models in the run up to the original 2030 ban, leaving hybrids as the only choice for those who don't want a BEV?

Possibly.

My assumption .... naive perhaps .... was that PHEV sales increases were down to demand rather than artificial restrictions on supply of other types.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Could that be down to manufacturers starting to phase out ICE models in the run up to the original 2030 ban, leaving hybrids as the only choice for those who don't want a BEV?

By what definition does a hybrid NOT have an Internal Combustion Engine?

 

[BTB 500]

By what definition does a hybrid NOT have an Internal Combustion Engine?

Sorry, being lazy. Phasing out of pure ICE / ICE-only models.