The EV fact thread

[Petrol Pete]

New tax for "heavy cars" starts in France next year.....because obviously heavy cars produce more carbon than a lighter one with the same engine. It wont initially apply to EVs but will a bit latter becuase heavy EVs still waste more energy (and therefore create more carbon if not run on renewable electricity.....most leccy still isn't) than a light one....the limit is 1800kg......many EVs (and cars like the latest heavy weight C63) are well over that. Wonder how long before someone things is a good idea to copy that here? At least it might make manufacturers consider weight a bit more....something that seems to have been largely forgotten recently. Weight is the biggest enemy of a good handling car.

France set to lower weight tax threshold for new gas-guzzling vehicles

However, electric cars will be exempt from the charge

www.connexionfrance.com

Good point . But we all know that 'adding lightness' is very , very expensive.

 

[Petrol Pete]

You leave your car on overnight charging only to go out in the morning to find the cable cut at both ends and missing!!
The link below is old.....but its still happening as a customer of mine recently found out!!! Bit of a risk to health cutting it though.......mine you that does not stop the scumbags nicking 700v DC (much worse than AC) railway cable!

EV charging cables becoming must-have items for scrap metal thieves

Electric vehicle drivers are being advised to lock away charging cables as the metal in them becomes increasingly sought after by thieves. According to r

evfleetworld.co.uk

Drivers should also charge inside a garage where possible or park with the charging point nearest to the house, in order to keep the cable discreet to potential thieves driving by....

Love this bit . All of the advice an anti EV person would pray that you ignore just in case your EV burst's into flames.

Lose my cable ? or my home and family . ?

Decisions , decisions...

Not a fact or opinion .. only joking.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

So it a high-miler and it lost around 40% of its value over the first two years. Is this abnormal for this market segment? I really don't know.

In this case we’re talking losing 45% in the first three years, which must point towards a £25k Taycan at six years old

For the owner the loss will be more like 55% over three years. (24% pa compound). Percentages being headline retail to headline retail.

Most losses are parcelled into a financing wrapper, but it’s the punter, and the tax man, who pays for that service

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Drivers should also charge inside a garage where possible or park with the charging point nearest to the house, in order to keep the cable discreet to potential thieves driving by....

Curious. I don’t know what the stats are for indoor EV charging. I don’t think I know anyone who does, the points seem usually to be outdoors.

But as a friend regularly says: “you never know what goes on behind closed doors.”

 

[ALFAitalia]

In this case we’re talking losing 45% in the first three years, which must point towards a £25k Taycan at six years old

For the owner the loss will be more like 55% over three years. (24% pa compound). Percentages being headline retail to headline retail.

Most losses are parcelled into a financing wrapper, but it’s the punter, and the tax man, who pays for that service

Dont forget that most of these used Taycans on AT are from dealers....so the first owner probably lost at least five grand more than its being sold for now.

 

[Will]

Now, now ! A three wheeler Peel isn't for everyone. Ever seen a Reliant roll ?

But a one owner Porker for £50k? That's a different thing.

View attachment 150484

How does this compare % wise to say a similar age/mileage (and hp/performance!) Panamera turbo?

I think big expensive luxury cars have always been big on depreciation, Cayenne was probably similar twenty years ago?

The 911 is a bit like your GTI (GTE/GTD) example and they have always bucked the trend for depreciation as I’m sure you know - an exception really in the world of used cars

 

[Will]

Dont forget that most of these used Taycans on AT are from dealers....so the first owner probably lost at least five grand more than its being sold for now.

That’s the same for all used cars though, dealers add a profit margin

 

[Will]

There was a ‘baby blue’ Taycan driving in this morning, who seemed to be in a hurry (or was desperate to show off his superiority ), but was eventually no quicker into London than any of the other traffic. Certainly not driving like some of the assumptions made about eco-warrior EV drivers with range anxiety or whatever

Driver was a bit of a c…, but nice cars though

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

How does this compare % wise to say a similar age/mileage (and hp/performance!) Panamera turbo?

I think big expensive luxury cars have always been big on depreciation, Cayenne was probably similar twenty years ago?

The 911 is a bit like your GTI (GTE/GTD) example and they have always bucked the trend for depreciation as I’m sure you know - an exception really in the world of used cars

Like my petrol TSI, GT, and GTI Golfs, you mean, that have always bucked the trend for depreciation, unlike the GTD recently, and now the GTE

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

How does this compare % wise to say a similar age/mileage (and hp/performance!) Panamera turbo?
I think big expensive luxury cars have always been big on depreciation, Cayenne was probably similar twenty years ago?
The 911 is a bit like your GTI (GTE/GTD) example and they have always bucked the trend for depreciation as I’m sure you know - an exception really in the world of used cars

My point was that the Taycan went from being priced like a 911 when new, but like a used Boxster when three years old.

My comments are coloured by friends and friends of friends who are swearing at Taycan heater and other component issues, OPC staff shortages, and are complaining that their vehicles are off the road for absurd amounts of time.

To their credit, most comment that the Taycan is built and drives "like a Porsche," and not like a Tesla (aka. an electric Vauxhall)

I'm not familiar with Cayennes or Panamera prices, apart from thinking that the Turbo Panamera is a six figure creature. I'll take advice. But there'll be Porsche four door owner on here that can chime in? The benchmark presumably is the Panamera, rather than the Soccer Mum Cayenne. (I only know one Panamera owner - he's in Dublin where Porsche prices are simply insane)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

There was a ‘baby blue’ Taycan driving in this morning, who seemed to be in a hurry (or was desperate to show off his superiority ), but was eventually no quicker into London than any of the other traffic. Certainly not driving like some of the assumptions made about eco-warrior EV drivers with range anxiety or whatever

Driver was a bit of a c…, but nice cars though

Started the day with 300+ miles in the tank, no doubt, which is usually plenty for the morning commute.

On the A3, it's still the Cayenne Turbo which commutes "like stink" weaving in and out of traffic like a white Astra van delivery driver, but usually reaching the Wandsworth One Way system no faster than the woman doing her make-up in the mirror of her MINI

 

[markjay]

Dont forget thatPosss most of these used Taycans on AT are from dealers....so the first owner probably lost at least five grand more than its being sold for now.

Possibly, but not necessarily... I've learnt this when I bought ex-lease cars.

The finance providers typically get a massive discount off RRP, especially when pre-ordering manufacturing slots.

This explains why many lease deals do not seem to cover the cost of depreciation - because consumers measure deprication as the diffrence between RRP and the value second hand, which is not how finance providers calculate it.

 

[BTB 500]

An interesting (and impartial) in-depth video about PHEVs from Aussie John Cadogan and a Mitsubishi engineer.

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[Will]

My point was that the Taycan went from being priced like a 911 when new, but like a used Boxster when three years old.

My comments are coloured by friends and friends of friends who are swearing at Taycan heater and other component issues, OPC staff shortages, and are complaining that their vehicles are off the road for absurd amounts of time.

To their credit, most comment that the Taycan is built and drives "like a Porsche," and not like a Tesla (aka. an electric Vauxhall)

I'm not familiar with Cayennes or Panamera prices, apart from thinking that the Turbo Panamera is a six figure creature. I'll take advice. But there'll be Porsche four door owner on here that can chime in? The benchmark presumably is the Panamera, rather than the Soccer Mum Cayenne. (I only know one Panamera owner - he's in Dublin where Porsche prices are simply insane)

I think Panamera turbo prices start around £18k, which for a 2009 onwards Porsche that would have been £100k plus new is pretty hefty depreciation. Regular ‘V8’ Panameras probably cheaper still.

Most 911s of that age, any condition/spec/mileage you’d be looking at £30k plus, and £50k plus for a turbo.

Point being is that comparing an EV Porsche against a 911 in terms of new price and residual value is misleading. The 911 holds its value well, big chunky luxury/prestige cars such as the Panamera, Cayenne and Taycan don’t seem to - and I don’t think it’s solely down to the form of propulsion either.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think Panamera turbo prices start around £18k, which for a 2009 onwards Porsche that would have been £100k plus new is pretty hefty depreciation. Regular ‘V8’ Panameras probably cheaper still.

Most 911s of that age, any condition/spec/mileage you’d be looking at £30k plus, and £50k plus for a turbo.

Point being is that comparing an EV Porsche against a 911 in terms of new price and residual value is misleading. The 911 holds its value well, big chunky luxury/prestige cars such as the Panamera, Cayenne and Taycan don’t seem to - and I don’t think it’s solely down to the form of propulsion either.

So now you're comparing 14 years of depreciation on a Panamera Turbo that's done more than 100,000 miles in the hands of five owners

to a three year old one owner Taycan that's done 40k?

 

[Will]

So now you're comparing 14 years of depreciation on a Panamera Turbo to 3 years on a Taycan?

I’m just illustrating that this has always been the case, since cars such as the Cayenne or Panamera have been on the scene.

It’s not a unique phenomenon since the Taycan was launched in recent times.

Happy to dig out some prices for comparable 3 year old Panamera Turbos:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

‘20’ reg with 35k miles for £63,950. How much was that brand new?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I’m just illustrating that this has always been the case, since cars such as the Cayenne or Panamera have been on the scene.
It’s not a unique phenomenon since the Taycan was launched in recent times.
Happy to dig out some prices for comparable 3 year old Panamera Turbos:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

‘20’ reg with 35k miles for £63,950. How much was that brand new?

So, going back to the earlier comment about how the 2020 Taycan has taken a bath,

Here's what's happened to a 2020 Panamera 4 which cost £85k three years ago. Shocking, it's lost 25%, which is a lot. But not as much as the 45% lost on a 3 year old Taycan.

Whereas new cars, like the Taycan, usually hold their value significantly better than 10 year old vehicles.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

But enough of these Porkers,

let's talk about three year old fabulous Mercedes luxury EV's that are well worth buying...

 

[Will]

So, going back to the earlier comment about how the 2020 Taycan has taken a bath,

Here's what's happened to a 2020 Panamera 4 which cost £85k three years ago. Shocking, it's lost 25%, which is a lot. But not as much as the 45% lost on a 3 year old Taycan.

Whereas new cars, like the Taycan, usually hold their value significantly better than 10 year old vehicles.



View attachment 150574

According to EVO magazine, 2020 Panamera Turbos started around £135k - ouch!

Doesn’t that make the £63,950 example I linked to over 50% in three years, depending on options of course?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

According to EVO magazine, 2020 Panamera Turbos started around £135k - ouch!

Doesn’t that make the £63,950 example I linked to over 50% in three years, depending on options of course?

Doesn't that make a Panamera Turbo, starting at £135k, a vehicle in a different league to a Taycan starting at £80k?

Here we go: Taycan Turbo 4S. £150k, yours... three years on; 45% down at a bargain £85k.

(Don't tell anyone but everyone says the Turbo 4S is a waste of money over the 4: a performance difference that's barely noticeable)