The EV fact thread

[clk320x]

Apparently apps say all is ok and no maintainance needed. How clever! AI electrician?

Apps show how many chargers are actually working? What more do you need?

 

[markjay]

Apps show how many chargers are actually working? What more do you need?

But do you believe them? I mean, they also said that we landed on the moon. It's all a conspiracy...

 

[ChipChop]

Apps show how many chargers are actually working? What more do you need?

Regular safety inspections.

 

[ChipChop]

Then again maybe customer safety is not a high priority.

"Nov 21 (Reuters) - A Florida judge found "reasonable evidence" that Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk and other managers knew the automaker's vehicles had a defective Autopilot system but still allowed the cars to be driven unsafely, according to a ruling."

Judge finds evidence that Tesla, Musk knew about Autopilot defect

A Florida judge found "reasonable evidence" that Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk and other managers knew the automaker's vehicles had a defective Autopilot system but still allowed the cars to be driven unsafely, according to a ruling.

www.reuters.com

 

[clk320x]

Regular safety inspections.

Surely there would be relevant safety legislation setting out inspection intervals? It’s literally a non-issue - but of course it’s a regular pattern for non-EV drivers to find any glimmer of issue they can and blow it out of proportion.

 

[markjay]

Then again maybe customer safety is not a high priority.

"Nov 21 (Reuters) - A Florida judge found "reasonable evidence" that Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk and other managers knew the automaker's vehicles had a defective Autopilot system but still allowed the cars to be driven unsafely, according to a ruling."

Judge finds evidence that Tesla, Musk knew about Autopilot defect

A Florida judge found "reasonable evidence" that Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk and other managers knew the automaker's vehicles had a defective Autopilot system but still allowed the cars to be driven unsafely, according to a ruling.

www.reuters.com

Agreed. The Tesla autopilot system is pure madness. The idea that a driver can move to back seat and take a nap is scary. Mr Musk often talks about how technology should be 'fun', but this is plain irresponsible. And the recent recall is as good as an admission of guilt:

Tesla Is Recalling Nearly All Vehicles Sold in US to Fix an Autopilot Fault

The Tesla recall, which affects more than 2 million vehicles, follows a two-year investigation by the US government into a series of crashes linked to the Autopilot system.

www.wired.co.uk

All cars sold in the UK must have a feature that requires the driver to keep their hands on the steering wheel at all times. In fact, MB even removed the auto-parking system from some model in order to comply with this directive.

My IONIQ 5 has this very sensible feature - if I do not keep my hands on the steering wheel, an alarm sounds and a warning is displayed that the autopilot system is about to disengage itself.

See also:

What are autonomous car levels? Levels 1 to 5 of driverless vehicle tech explained

CAR magazine UK explains the levels of autonomy in driverless car technology

www.carmagazine.co.uk

Tesla is nowhere near Level 5.

 

[clk320x]

All cars sold in the UK must have a feature that requires the driver to keep their hands on the steering wheel at all times. In

Autopilot has always had this MJ.

 

[markjay]

Autopilot has always had this MJ.

So what's the recall about, then?

Or possibly this wasn't the case in the US?

The driver who died in the case that is the basis for the current lawsuit was using the autopilot feature and did not have his hands on the steering wheel:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/

"The Tesla continues barreling toward the tractor-trailer at nearly 69 mph. Neither Banner nor Autopilot activates the brakes"

It seems that the driver as also not looking at the road ahead.

 

[markjay]

Incidentally, this isn't an 'ICE fact' as such - instead, autonomous driving systems are available for all cars, both EVs and ICE, and in fact go back to MB's pioneering Distronic, first released in 1999.

 

[clk320x]

So what's the recall about, then?

Or possibly this wasn't the case in the US?

The driver who died in the case that is the basis for the current lawsuit was using the autopilot feature and did not have his hands on the steering wheel:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/

"The Tesla continues barreling toward the tractor-trailer at nearly 69 mph. Neither Banner nor Autopilot activates the brakes"

It seems that the driver as also not looking at the road ahead.

That’s FSD Beta - this is not available in the UK. Also - it’s always been a Beta software and people were always told to be ready to take over.
The ‘recall’ is also just a software update pushed OTA.

 

[190]

If you have to keep your hands on the wheel and watch where you are going, what exactly is the point of autopilot in it's present form.

Apportioning blame, I'd split it equally 3 ways. As with most accidents it's a number of circumstances coming together at the wrong time.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for Tesla as they are over selling a feature that can't do what it claims to do and there are any number of dimwit drivers that will believe their hype. If the driver is ultimately responsible for the vehicle then you have to give them something to do to maintain concentration otherwise it's like the boredom of motorway driving only worse. Hands on the wheel but brain disengaged isn't ever going to work as a back stop, it's just a legal excuse.

The deceased driver shares considerable blame for using autopilot without following the requirements of hands on the wheel and looking where he was going. Also particularly for setting the speed way above the posted limit. Even if autopilot worked as it should, it couldn't be expected to be safe way above the posted speed limit.

The semi driver impeded a right of way pure and simple. It wasn't even "I didn't see you coming" more I saw you coming but "thought I had enough time" which usually translates to "my manoeuvre will almost certainly cause you to you slow down but that's tough I'm going to do it anyway". Semi drivers feel they have the right to do that sometimes because they are big and slow. On this occasion the driver wished he hadn't.

 

[markjay]

If you have to keep your hands on the wheel and watch where you are going, what exactly is the point of autopilot in it's present form. ...

I works quite well, actually. I keep my hands on the steering wheel without exerting force, and watch the road ahead. I find that I get to my destination more relaxed.

It's not a game changer, just like cruise control and adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist aren't game changers, we all know how to manage the car's speed with our right foot and how to keep the car in the middle of the lane using our hands, but it does help.

(But in any event it's not an EV issue - most new cars will have some or all of these features)

 

[markjay]

China’s BYD overtakes Tesla's electric car sales in last quarter of 2023

Electric-only deliveries from Chinese company BYD outpaced Elon Musk's Tesla for the first time.

www.google.com

 

[Petrol Pete]

So what's the recall about, then?

Or possibly this wasn't the case in the US?

The driver who died in the case that is the basis for the current lawsuit was using the autopilot feature and did not have his hands on the steering wheel:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/

"The Tesla continues barreling toward the tractor-trailer at nearly 69 mph. Neither Banner nor Autopilot activates the brakes"

It seems that the driver as also not looking at the road ahead.

Not surprised the Tesla had a bit of trouble seeing the trailer . In the USA almost no semi trailers have any sort of crash bar/barrier . I drive over there quite a lot and always wonder how they allow that omission . Just a great big (longer than out trucks, for the moment) void waiting to be filled .

A crash barrier under the load might not stop a car going in at 90' at speed but my guess is that the Tesla might have seen it if one had been fitted. very sad.

 

[BTB 500]

In the USA almost no semi trailers have any sort of crash bar/barrier

They didn't have under-run bars at the back till movie star Jayne Mansfield was killed when her car rear-ended a trailer, taking the entire top off it. They're still often referred to as Mansfield Bars:

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-are-mansfield-bars

Strange that they still don't require side ones.

 

[Petrol Pete]

When alongside them on the freeway (remember they drive in pretty much any lane they want to at whatever speed) it's quite daunting , especially in a low car . It's a place I never linger , but sometimes unavoidable.

 

[Noitz]

2nd hand value crunch:

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[markjay]

2nd hand value crunch:

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Great news for second hand buyers, then

The EV affordability barrier is finally being removed.

Incidentally, apart from my EV which is on a lease, I have never bought a new car privately in my life - always went for a second hand car from a model that has high depreciation - I bought two Vauxhall Omegas and two C-Class this way, amazing value second hand. My guess is that I am not alone on this forum. And it's good to hear that this is now also applicable also to EVs.

As for his opening comments... that's the typical view about EVs from someone who never had one. He's wrong on all counts, BTW - I have been driving an EV for over two years now: I live in a flat and obviously don't have a driveway, and yet public charging isn't an issue, long journeys are not impossible, just somewhat less convenient, and many national businesses have converted their van fleets to EVs long time ago. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good YouTube rant

 

[Noitz]

I see no rant. How can you discredit or disbelieve unpalatable statements by Toyota's chief operating officer? Or the fact that the major rental company SIXT are not using EVs any more? Facts are facts, and as the second hand market values are showing at the moment (even with Tesla cars), EV ownership a financial suicide unless you're filthy rich.

 

[markjay]

I see no rant. How can you discredit or disbelieve unpalatable statements by Toyota's chief operating officer? Or the fact that the major rental company SIXT are not using EVs any more? Facts are facts, and as the second hand market values are showing at the moment (even with Tesla cars), EV ownership a financial suicide unless you're filthy rich.

I was referring to his opening comments - which can be described as ignorant comments, at best. As someone who is driving an EV, I can tell you that the chap makes sweeping comments typical of someone who never had an EV - or never had a serious conversation with someone who does. Again, public charging isn't an issue at all in many parts of the UK (in my case the lamppost charger is right outside my front door), long journeys are not an issue as long as you plan them properly and use the app, and Amazon, Royal Mail, British Gas and many others have been using EV vans for years now. So the chap is clearly making YouTube videos based on his own misconceptions and without doing even basic research.

Regarding deprecating cars (EV or otherwise), yes this is correct - and a fast deprecating car is good news for bargain hunters, as I said I've been doing this for years, as I am sure many others have. Only a fool will buy new a fast deprecating car (EV or otherwise) - you buy these cars second hand, the first owner will typically be a finance provider and these cars typically start their life on a business lease. But this is just the car market, and it has always been like that - it's not news. Smart buyers buy smart... that's all there is to it.

Edit: a few years back, a very shrewd friend of mine bought a 2-years old VW Phaeton from a VW dealer - the car just came off a lease and was sold for a fraction of the cost of a new one - amazing car and amazing value. Pity it wasn't the 3.0L TDI and not the 6.0L W12...