The EV fact thread

[markjay]

Looks like things are taking a turn for the worst for EV sales in Germany....then possibly the rest of the EU .

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If you think the news from Germany is funny then you are clearly not seeing the bigger political picture regarding EV's as part of the fanciful 'green' utopia that clueless politicians the world over are blindly pushing for.

Alchemists were typing to convert lead into gold. When it didn't work, the revelation was that we can't convert anything into gold, and not that we should try converting iron instead.

This is where we are with private ownership of motorcars. We realised that it's not sustainable for all of us to drive all the time everywhere. But instead of reaching the logical conclusion that we can't have so many privately owning private vehicles and drive them everywhere any time, we have changed the propulsion method and we thing that this will somehow solve our problems.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Alchemists were typing to convert lead into gold. When it didn't work, the revelation was that we can't convert anything into gold, and not that we should try converting iron instead.

This is where we are with private ownership of motorcars. We realised that it's not sustainable for all of us to drive all the time everywhere. But instead of reaching the logical conclusion that we can't have so many privately owning private vehicles and drive them everywhere any time, we have changed the propulsion method and we thing that this will somehow solve our problems.

That’s a very Mbclub way of thinking about things.

Out in the rest of the UK, urban mobility’s changed as dramatically this decade as it did in previous decades - but in the opposite direction. Helped by the Young dramatically delaying their start of their driving careers, running into cities as fast as they can, and using public transport and bikes in ways which were unimaginable even a decade ago.

And then there’s Asia. Half the world that was about to start driving petrol cars and motorbikes, but which is being forced to use EV cars and bikes instead

 

[ChipChop]

This is where we are with private ownership of motorcars. We realised that it's not sustainable for all of us to drive all the time everywhere.

Not sure who you are referring to when you say we realised that private car ownership is not sustainable. We have little say in the sustainable development agenda being played out all around us. That is left to supra national bodies such as the United Nations to decide not us.
Not unlike during Covid times when those in power ignored their own rules the UN's COP attendees consistently show the same disregard for their own rules. That leaves the ordinary man in the street with only one form of recourse. To question vociferously the decisions being made which effect our everyday lives.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not sure who you are referring to when you say we realised that private car ownership is not sustainable. We have little say in the sustainable development agenda being played out all around us. That is left to supra national bodies such as the United Nations to decide not us.
Not unlike during Covid times when those in power ignored their own rules the UN's COP attendees consistently show the same disregard for their own rules. That leaves the ordinary man in the street with only one form of recourse. To question vociferously the decisions being made which effect our everyday lives.

Are the people working for supra national bodies not ordinary people too?

 

[markjay]

Are the people working for supra national bodies not ordinary people too?

Naah, they're greedy bastards the lot of 'em, I tell ya'.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Here are some EV facts. I’ve just checked the Tesla website to see what the journey would be like if we took at Model S on holiday to the South of France.

We’d stop five times for a total o 2 hours and 30 minutes, with each stop ranging between 25 and 50 minutes, in order to cover the 1,022 mile distance.

We’d easily stop five times and for a total in excess of 2h 30m, and four of the five stops are within a few miles of where we’ve stopped on the same run in an ICE car.

Seems reasonable. Now I wonder whether a car with free supercharger access would get us there for free? If so then the car could pay for itself in a few years.

 

[clk320x]

Seems reasonable. Now I wonder whether a car with free supercharger access would get us there for free? If so then the car could pay for itself in a few years.

It would, but this option is no longer available on new cars, and older cars which have it are few and far between (when sold back to Tesla they revoke it) - as well as aging now - even the newest cars with that option will be coming up to 8 years old next year and will be out of their drivetrain warranties (most are already out) - and the vast majority having covered well over 100k miles. Being older they also are less efficient and slower to charge compared to newer models with heat-pump and 250kW charging, honestly the cost of supercharging is minuscule when it is only really used for longer journeys.

 

[clk320x]

EGR tend to clog up with mileage, and when they do, it's an easy fix.

AdBlue can malfunction for no obvious reason at any time, can cost £££ to diagnose, and will almost certainly cost ££££ to repair.

Fair points, but the system works well to reduce harmful exhaust emission.

 

[clk320x]

So just chill and drive what you want to drive; and let the other bloke / lady drive what they want to drive.

Apart from in city centres I suppose.

 

[ChipChop]

Here are some EV facts. I’ve just checked the Tesla website to see what the journey would be like if we took at Model S on holiday to the South of France.

We’d stop five times for a total o 2 hours and 30 minutes, with each stop ranging between 25 and 50 minutes, in order to cover the 1,022 mile distance.

We’d easily stop five times and for a total in excess of 2h 30m, and four of the five stops are within a few miles of where we’ve stopped on the same run in an ICE car.

Seems reasonable. Now I wonder whether a car with free supercharger access would get us there for free? If so then the car could pay for itself in a few years.

Wherever the budding Tesla driver decides to go on their next jollies it would be prudent to first check if unions in your chosen destination are not planning on striking because of Musk's ongoing anti union stance.

Currently, for example, a Tesla driver would be ill advised to travel to Sweden, Finland, Norway or Denmark where support for striking Tesla technicians demanding collective bargaining is strong.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/29/tesla-strike-sweden-elon-musk/

 

[190]

Alchemists were typing to convert lead into gold. When it didn't work, the revelation was that we can't convert anything into gold, and not that we should try converting iron instead.

This is where we are with private ownership of motorcars. We realised that it's not sustainable for all of us to drive all the time everywhere. But instead of reaching the logical conclusion that we can't have so many privately owning private vehicles and drive them everywhere any time, we have changed the propulsion method and we thing that this will somehow solve our problems.

Come what may, I can't see this as a realistic scenario outside of big cities and any means of forcing the issue through punitive taxation is likely to result in only the wealthy having a personal car. Regulations are effectively forcing people out of small cars into bigger ones which seems a crazy approach to net zero to me. Before I have the slightest sympathy for the idea that we can't have so many privately owned vehicles, I'd want to see the more realistic approach of penalising excessively heavy private vehicles. Regardless of motive power source, the UK's 33 million cars will be more environmentally friendly if they cease to get progressively bigger and heavier. Reducing weight will reduce both manufacturing emissions and operating emissions. France already has a weight tax above 1.8 tonnes and that limit is set to be lowered. While I think they are quite wrong to completely exempt EV's from weight tax as they could have simply increased the weight limit for EV's, it does seem a simple and fair approach. It won't of course prevent the wealthy having excessively heavy private cars but it's a step in the right direction when we have been going in exactly the wrong direction.

Lets get this in perspective, I'm saying we should force cars to be smaller and lighter before we force the issue that you can't have one at all.

 

[clk320x]

Wherever the budding Tesla driver decides to go on their next jollies it would be prudent to first check if unions in your chosen destination are not planning on striking because of Musk's ongoing anti union stance.

Currently, for example, a Tesla driver would be ill advised to travel to Sweden, Finland, Norway or Denmark where support for striking Tesla technicians demanding collective bargaining is strong.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/29/tesla-strike-sweden-elon-musk/

What’s that got to do with charging stations?

 

[ChipChop]

What’s that got to do with charging stations?

If you read the article it states Swedish electricians are refusing to service Tesla's charging points.

 

[clk320x]

If you read the article it states Swedish electricians are refusing to service Tesla's charging points.

Fair enough. Should be ok in the short term as they don’t need much routine maintenance. I’m sure it’ll be sorted soon.

 

[ChipChop]

Fair enough. Should be ok in the short term as they don’t need much routine maintenance. I’m sure it’ll be sorted soon.

Sorted soon? This has been the situation for the last 3 months.

 

[clk320x]

Sorted soon? This has been the situation for the last 3 months.

Well seeing as all superchargers in Sweden are well and truly fine it’s clear they’ve got that side of the matter under control. Amazing infrastructure in that neck of the woods, some sites have 40 stalls! (The numbers displayed are how many are currently free, if they were faulty they’d show as temporarily closed)

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It would, but this option is no longer available on new cars, and older cars which have it are few and far between (when sold back to Tesla they revoke it) - as well as aging now - even the newest cars with that option will be coming up to 8 years old next year and will be out of their drivetrain warranties (most are already out) - and the vast majority having covered well over 100k miles. Being older they also are less efficient and slower to charge compared to newer models with heat-pump and 250kW charging, honestly the cost of supercharging is minuscule when it is only really used for longer journeys.

I occasionally keep my eye on them, and as you suggest they tend to be leggier examples, which wouldn’t put me off. I quite like the idea of running an early one.

 

[clk320x]

I occasionally keep my eye on them, and as you suggest they tend to be leggier examples, which wouldn’t put me off. I quite like the idea of running an early one.

They are superb cars, you just need to do a cost/benefit analysis on running an older one with no battery warranty.

 

[clk320x]

Well seeing as all superchargers in Sweden are well and truly fine it’s clear they’ve got that side of the matter under control. Amazing infrastructure in that neck of the woods, some sites have 40 stalls! (The numbers displayed are how many are currently free, if they were faulty they’d show as temporarily closed)

The same with Norway etc…

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

They are superb cars, you just need to do a cost/benefit analysis on running an older one with no battery warranty.

My mate @ChipChop has set up an independent Tesla repair shop and he said that if I buy an old, cheap, leggy example then he’ll look after it for just the trade cost of the parts, and he’ll throw in the labour for free. as he wants to bust some myths and show people that running an older EV is nothing to be scared of