The EV fact thread

[ToeKnee]

All good info @markjay , but could I buy an ev for the same price as my Mondeo with a battery guarantee to last another 8-9 years? All these things were considered, plus I would be off the road for less than a week if I needed to replace anything major on the car like engine etc, and just a few hours for gearbox clutch etc. Not sure how long I'd be off the road if I needed to claim for battery warranty.
Don't get me wrong I'm not against ev in any way but for my personal circumstances I think I made the correct decision.

Ps, no accountant, do my own self assessment.

 

[Connoisseur]

True, but filling up an ice car takes 5 mins and is never a problem. Also, I've never got piss wet through filling up my car in the rain . EVs definitely a EQS on

In spreadsheet terms I see your logic 1000000%. In terms of loving cars, driving, or just owning something special or beautiful... not so much if I'm honest. But that's just me

One example for you: My SIL lives in Liskeard which is 287 miles door to door and the wife and I rack up the miles at an alarming rate throughout the year because SIL doesn't drive so it's always us that goes to visit. This distance is not an issue as I can get there and back and still have fuel in the tank. Also, we usually only stop once for a quick toilet break and driver swap at Gloucester Services and it's back on the road.

In spreadsheet terms I see your logic 1000000%. In terms of loving cars, driving, or just owning something special or beautiful... not so much if I'm honest. But that's just me

s’ok, I do have something special and beautiful, which i keep for roof down summer road trips across Europe

 

[markjay]

All good info @markjay , but could I buy an ev for the same price as my Mondeo with a battery guarantee to last another 8-9 years? All these things were considered, plus I would be off the road for less than a week if I needed to replace anything major on the car like engine etc, and just a few hours for gearbox clutch etc. Not sure how long I'd be off the road if I needed to claim for battery warranty.
Don't get me wrong I'm not against ev in any way but for my personal circumstances I think I made the correct decision.

Ps, no accountant, do my own self assessment.

I think that what you describe is a simple case of the known vs the unknown.

I.e., there's no particular reason to assume that the EV will develop a fault or that the battery will need replacing under warranty, it's just that the latest breed of EVs have only been on the market for 3-4 years and it's too early to tell what their reliability will look like long-term.

My own view is that a vehicle based on an electric motor and a battery is inherently more reliable than a car equipped with an ICE engine and transmission, however the ICE engine and transmission have been in development for decades so they do have that advantage.

Being in IT, I remember how unreliable were the Seagate 10mb and 20mb HDDs back in the eighties, but after 30 years for manufacturing millions (if not billions) of these complex and delicate electromechanical devices, the industry managed to reach very good reliability and very high MTBF (for the commercial drives anyway).

In comparison, the first SSDs on the market had small capacity, were expensive, and very unreliable.

But 10 years later, SSDs have now overtaken HDDs in reliability. However, HDDs are still outperform SSDs in price-per-gigabyte, mainly due to the fact that the industry has been making them for decades now.

I believe that the same applies to ICE cars, any advantages they currently have are mostly due to the fact that we've been making them for over a century now, and we got the process down to a tee. We're still finding our feet when it comes to EV manufacturing.

 

[ChipChop]

What are the forums EV advocates views on the conclusions of TFL's Jacobs report? The report found the adoption of low emissions vehicles inside the M25 (expanded ULEZ) has little to no benefit in terms of lowering overall NOx and particulate emission levels.

 

[BIGDOG]

What are the forums EV advocates views on the conclusions of TFL's Jacobs report? The report found the adoption of low emissions vehicles inside the M25 (expanded ULEZ) has little to no benefit in terms of lowering overall NOx and particulate emission levels.


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It’s two different things.

 

[Bellow]

If you run on dino juice, typically the first thing you need to do when starting out on a long journey is find somewhere to fill up - awkward

For ICE owners, usually starting most days with a less than half tank, a visit to a petrol station is vital.

People who's work is on-the-road refuel at the end of the day (when all the work is done) and start the following day with a full tank. Thing is, people like that's requirements are being totally ignored.
The idea that anyone working-on-the-road has time to down tools to recharge (but yes, I've seen it) in a country with such lamentable productivity is absurd.

 

[Bellow]

At least for unplugging I can wait for the rain to stop.

What is the etiquette for releasing a recharging point for another to use when you have the level of charge you require? Do leave your EV connected (just because it's raining) while another searches (and possibly risks grinding to a halt - despite being told that this is a myth) for somewhere to plug in? When the number of EVs on the road reach a level that recharging points are in near constant use, how are recharging points to be freed as quickly as possible?

 

[clk320x]

What is the etiquette for releasing a recharging point for another to use when you have the level of charge you require? Do leave your EV connected (just because it's raining) while another searches (and possibly risks grinding to a halt - despite being told that this is a myth) for somewhere to plug in? When the number of EVs on the road reach a level that recharging points are in near constant use, how are recharging points to be freed as quickly as possible?

Oh dear. He’s referring to slow overnight charge points on streetlights, you are not obligated to unplug on these immediately, this is different to DC fast charging stations which often charge you a fee per unit time that you leave your vehicle plugged in after completion. In the case of Tesla superchargers, this is £1 per minute and therefore means that stations are never blocked. PS you are also given a grace time of five minutes to unplug following charge completion & notified multiple times when you are approaching your charge limit/charge is completed.

 

[Bellow]

Oh dear.

Quite.

He’s referring to slow overnight charge points on streetlights,

No shit Sherlock - I'd never have known. Not like MJ hasn't mentioned it.

you are not obligated to unplug on these immediately,

Which is why I'm asking about the etiquette regarding releasing them.

this is different to DC fast charging stations which often charge you a fee per unit time that you leave your vehicle plugged in after completion. In the case of Tesla superchargers, this is £1 per minute and therefore means that stations are never blocked.

So, no answer to my question - just a detour to irrelevant information. Nothing new here then...

 

[clk320x]

Quite.

No shit Sherlock - I'd never have known. Not like MJ hasn't mentioned it.

Which is why I'm asking about the etiquette regarding releasing them.

So, no answer to my question - just a detour to irrelevant information. Nothing new here then...

My point is you wouldn’t ’grind to a halt’ on a journey because you wouldn’t be relying on streetlight chargers en-route on a journey.

 

[clk320x]

People who's work is on-the-road refuel at the end of the day (when all the work is done) and start the following day with a full tank. Thing is, people like that's requirements are being totally ignored.
The idea that anyone working-on-the-road has time to down tools to recharge (but yes, I've seen it) in a country with such lamentable productivity is absurd.

Yeah people ‘working on the road’ never stop for 10/15 minutes when they drive hundreds of miles, you’re right.

I guess they also never even stop to eat or get food when ‘working on the road’?

 

[markjay]

..Which is why I'm asking about the etiquette regarding releasing them...

That's a very good question.

There are two types of lamppost chargers where I live.

The majority are simply next to a parking bay, meaning that the usual parking restrictions apply (Resident Parking Permit holders, or Pay-and-Display). There's a polite notice on the lamppost asking motorists to be considerate and leave these bays to EVs if other bays are available.

The other type are lampposts where the parking bay next to them has been designated as 'Electric Vehicles Only'. On these bays, you must have a Resident Parking Permit to charge there, the EV can only be parked while connected to the charger, and the maximum stay is 12 hours. There's at least one such dedicated parking bay on each stretch of road.

I have to say that at current no one seems to take notice of the polite notice on the lampposts that are not dedicated to EVs, and people simply park their ICE cars wherever they want. Obviously, the rules for the dedicated charging bays are adhered to, presumably for fear of getting a PCN.

This has not been an issue so far though, because as I pointed-out previously at any given point in time the majority of chargers are not being used, and I've yet to run into an issue finding a free charger and bay in the vicinity of my house.

My expectation is that as more and more people get EVs, the Council will probably convert more generic parking bays to EV-only bays.

It would however be foolish to do this too soon, because it will 'rob' ICE cars of parking bays for no obvious reason.

On the same note, my car was down to 50% this morning and so I decided to top it up to 80%. The lamppost with the generic bay in front of my house was taken by a car that wasn't charging. The dedicated EV bay to the right was free but the charger was faulty. The dedicated EV bay on the other side of the road was free and operational so I am currently charging over there. It's right outside my front window , on the other side of the road. Because it's a dedicated EV charging bay, I'll need to move the car within 12 hours of parking it there. I'll probably move it as soon as my app tells me that charging has been completed.

 

[markjay]

People who's work is on-the-road refuel at the end of the day (when all the work is done) and start the following day with a full tank. Thing is, people like that's requirements are being totally ignored.
The idea that anyone working-on-the-road has time to down tools to recharge (but yes, I've seen it) in a country with such lamentable productivity is absurd.

There's a public super-fast charger at the end of our road, and there are three free fast chargers at our local Aldi - I often see both black cabs are Ubers charge there. So it seems that people who work-on-the-road do manage to squeeze-in charging into their daily routine. And given that some of these cars are Hybrid, it seems they do so out of choice (saving money).

But either way, people will indeed have to adapt, just as I'm sure they did when we moved from horse drawn carriages to motorcars.

 

[markjay]

What are the forums EV advocates views on the conclusions of TFL's Jacobs report? The report found the adoption of low emissions vehicles inside the M25 (expanded ULEZ) has little to no benefit in terms of lowering overall NOx and particulate emission levels.


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One possible conclusion is that the scheme is a failure because it does not prevent pollution cars from driving through London.

If this is the case, then the mistake made was allowing polluting cars into the zone in the first place, i.e. they should have simply banned all non-compliant cars from entering the zone and slap an £80 fine on anyone who ignores it, rather than the meager £12.50 ULEZ charge. Which, I believe, is what they did in Glasgow?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Whilst museing over what I've written above, how is the electricity used at home calculated for tax purposes? Ie, 99% of my diesel receipts go against my self assessment but how would I prove what electricity I've used to HMRC? Genuine question as I don't know how it works.

I'm not your friendly local ACA, but I'd suspect that she'd say that you either charge a standardised pence per mile number, or - if she's a rigorous old bat - she'd ask you to take an image before and after each fill.

But this is a well trodden path. The London carriage trade is right in the middle of EV conversion: spot an e-Niro in central London and it'll usually have a mini-cab sticker in the back window.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

People who's work is on-the-road refuel at the end of the day (when all the work is done) and start the following day with a full tank. Thing is, people like that's requirements are being totally ignored.
The idea that anyone working-on-the-road has time to down tools to recharge (but yes, I've seen it) in a country with such lamentable productivity is absurd.

For sure. Explain that to the company car drivers who are driving the EV transition, and the business drivers doing serious mileages.

The ones who plug in at home or at their hotels every night,

and to the folks who have to stop to eat and do admin in the course of their day

It's not the wage slave commuters in their 20's who are driving the transition, nor the work from home parents, and not even the half of all British drivers who are over 50.

It's the three quarters of a million in company cars doing high business miles, and all the other workers who car charge standard business mileage to their employers.

We've got what we voted for nearly two decades ago Solid Green, Liberal and Socialist Environmental policies, in the EU and globally.

.

 

[ChipChop]

One possible conclusion is that the scheme is a failure because it does not prevent pollution cars from driving through London.

If this is the case, then the mistake made was allowing polluting cars into the zone in the first place, i.e. they should have simply banned all non-compliant cars from entering the zone and slap an £80 fine on anyone who ignores it, rather than the meager £12.50 ULEZ charge. Which, I believe, is what they did in Glasgow?

To come to that conclusion i assume there must be evidence that pre euro 4 petrol & pre euro 6 diesel vehicle numbers have not decreased since the expanded ULEZ scheme was introduced. Seems unlikely. See current economic climate.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

What is the etiquette for releasing a recharging point for another to use when you have the level of charge you require? Do leave your EV connected (just because it's raining) while another searches (and possibly risks grinding to a halt - despite being told that this is a myth) for somewhere to plug in? When the number of EVs on the road reach a level that recharging points are in near constant use, how are recharging points to be freed as quickly as possible?

"If" chargers ever reach heavy use. (Seems unlikely) It would be a dumb council or sub-contracted provider that wouldn't convert more lampposts. These are commercial, money-making services.

It's like saying if the local pizza shop started to get a bit busy, wouldn't it be a disaster for young starving Brits needing to eat.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

What are the forums EV advocates views on the conclusions of TFL's Jacobs report? The report found the adoption of low emissions vehicles inside the M25 (expanded ULEZ) has little to no benefit in terms of lowering overall NOx and particulate emission levels.


View attachment 151613

Wasn't this all discussed ad nauseam at the time?

Sad IQ's initiative was a greenwashed tax raising exercise that was never going to reduce pollution in London. He had empty buses and trains to subsidise and union votes to buy.

The global EV transition is purely about climate change and CO2 emissions. It's a quarter of a century since Lord Browne of BP highlighted the CO2 issue. Surely it's been discussed "to death" already? If 4.5 billion workers of Asia were climbing into ICE vehicles instead of EV's the globe would be in serious trouble.

 

[Will]

Yes it's for a hackney carriage, so taxi. Purchase price over it's life for me is approx £1500/yr, all maintenance costs last year was just over £900 which included a new set of tyres, £180 ved, and fuel is approx 5k as you said. I currently do approx 140 miles a day so on an ev would need to charge every night? I appreciate I could save fuel costs by going ev but getting a reliable large ev for the price I paid for the Mondeo would possibly be a struggle. As I said, just the facts for me as I see them.

That's around £20 per week for an average EV, if charging at home on a night tariff.

As above, if you charge on a public charger or using a dedicated home charger, you'll be able to claim it back.

If you charge at home from a mains socket using a granny cable, you won't have a receipt - but you may still declare it based on the charging info in the car itself - your accountant should be able to advide on this.

All good info @markjay , but could I buy an ev for the same price as my Mondeo with a battery guarantee to last another 8-9 years? All these things were considered, plus I would be off the road for less than a week if I needed to replace anything major on the car like engine etc, and just a few hours for gearbox clutch etc. Not sure how long I'd be off the road if I needed to claim for battery warranty.
Don't get me wrong I'm not against ev in any way but for my personal circumstances I think I made the correct decision.

Ps, no accountant, do my own self assessment.

If you’re worried about the possibility in future of (potentially expensive) repairs to an EV - with no warranty in place - could these worries be offset against the savings made in fuel costs?

I mean going by your figure and MJ’s calculation you’d save about £4k PA - potentially £36k in fuel costs over your 9 year period.

And that’s assuming in 360k miles the diesel mondeo doesn’t need any major repairs, and that servicing/repair costs are otherwise equal for both (EVs should be less complicated in some areas servicing wise)

And also that in those 9 years, they don’t bring in more CAZ/ULEZ schemes, or higher VED that could affect your choice of vehicle too.