Traffic Police: Why do they generally drive over the speed limit with no lights?

[popuptoaster]

Quick, go touch a genuine wooden dash board somewhere

Luckily my ol' coupe comes equipped with just such a thing.

 

[Meldrew2]

2 of my neighbours who I drink with are both on road traffic (and TV stars of the Traffic Cops series )

I take it you don't give them a lift home from the pub after a few pints......

 

[219]

d. as you'd followed them over the limit you'd have a good job talking yourself out of a ticket. After all, if you are keeping up with a speeding policeman, you too must be speeding.

"officer, I followed you for 3 miles and you were doing 85mph+"...."how do you know this sir"...."I was doing the same"...."you've just earned yourself a £60 fine and 3 points sir"....

Don't give them any reason to give you a ticket, because they will.

Actually , there was a well-publicised case a couple of years back when an aggrieved motorist , who himself had received a speeding fine not so long before , followed a 'safety camera partnership' van up the A77 , through roadworks with a posted limit of 50mph , at an indicated speed of 85mph , witnessed and corroborated by his passenger , and , on following said van all the way into the road policing unit at Govan , made a formal complaint to a senior officer .

Far from making any kind of trouble for the complaining motorist , the complaint was taken seriously , the motorist's car was taken for a run to check the accuracy of his speedo , and confirm the actual speed at his indicated 85 , and on the strength of his , and his passenger's statements , the van driver was both disciplined and prosecuted !

Another time , a friend of mine was pulled over for a faulty tail light , and about to receive a ticket , when he noticed the police car also had a sidelight out - on pointing this out to the officer , he was told 'point taken' , and sent on his way

 

[alanuk400]

Well I don't know about other forces but I can comment on the ones near me as I have worked with them and 2 of my neighbours who I drink with are both on road traffic (and TV stars of the Traffic Cops series )T

They drink, tut, tut.

Only joking.

Alan

 

[Carrotchomper]

Actually , there was a well-publicised case a couple of years back when an aggrieved motorist , who himself had received a speeding fine not so long before , followed a 'safety camera partnership' van up the A77 , through roadworks with a posted limit of 50mph , at an indicated speed of 85mph , witnessed and corroborated by his passenger , and , on following said van all the way into the road policing unit at Govan , made a formal complaint to a senior officer .

Far from making any kind of trouble for the complaining motorist , the complaint was taken seriously , the motorist's car was taken for a run to check the accuracy of his speedo , and confirm the actual speed at his indicated 85 , and on the strength of his , and his passenger's statements , the van driver was both disciplined and prosecuted !

Another time , a friend of mine was pulled over for a faulty tail light , and about to receive a ticket , when he noticed the police car also had a sidelight out - on pointing this out to the officer , he was told 'point taken' , and sent on his way

You'd be surprised- One of my colleagues stuck one on for using a mobile whilst driving!

 

[Dieselman]

Actually , there was a well-publicised case a couple of years back when an aggrieved motorist , who himself had received a speeding fine not so long before , followed a 'safety camera partnership' van up the A77 , through roadworks with a posted limit of 50mph , at an indicated speed of 85mph , witnessed and corroborated by his passenger , and , on following said van all the way into the road policing unit at Govan , made a formal complaint to a senior officer .

Far from making any kind of trouble for the complaining motorist , the complaint was taken seriously , the motorist's car was taken for a run to check the accuracy of his speedo , and confirm the actual speed at his indicated 85 , and on the strength of his , and his passenger's statements , the van driver was both disciplined and prosecuted !

That could be abused like mad if all it takes is two connected witnesses to report such action and it could lead to prossecution..

 

[nick mercedes]

That could be abused like mad if all it takes is two connected witnesses to report such action and it could lead to prossecution..

See "section 59" for a similar problem.

 

[crockers]

i must have been extremely lucky then, never been hit for speeding by a camera or copper.

If you did would you do them for assault?

 

[stevieb15]

M6 toll today, 830ish, Police van, driver and two uniformed passengers, middle lane 80mph for 10 miles upto the main toll then pulls all the way to left hand side to go through most westerly toll booth.
He was just sat daring an ever increasing queue in the outside lane to overtake. Unfortunately the first driver in the queue did not understand the limited powers of the van and just waited there instead of overtaking or pulling in behind and letting the rest of us through.
OK, we would all of been over the limit but the van was just taking the piss and probably ensuring we all really got on with it once through the toll.

 

[HughJarse]

Or maybe he was saying, look guys and gals I know 70 is slow for modern cars so how about a compromise of 80.

And you wanted to reply with sod that if I can do 80 Ill do 90, which is the exact reason the 70 speed retriction will never change!

 

[Dryce]

He was just sat daring an ever increasing queue in the outside lane to overtake.

"sat daring" says more about your way of thinking than whatever their supposed their intent.

If they cruise well below the limit idiots still won't pass. If they cruise above the limit they are subject to the law.

Basically it's a no win for them.

 

[The G.F.P]

A1 south peterborough to huntingdon

im doing 75 ish as was in no hurry

i see a police transit come down the slip road and join the A1

then a few mins later he comes past me at about 85mph

no lights or sirens and obviously not going to an emergency and no lights of sirens

mad eme laught as people were slowing right down and then the van sped past everyone in lane 3 of 4

make it up as they go along syndrome

 

[Dryce]

Well heres my take on it as an advanced driver trainer, Speed does NOT kill this is a misconception. The stats for speed killing on it's own are 0.

So this tiresome old chestnut gets dragged out yet again.

You can make similar nonsense pronouncements about a gun without a bullet.

 

[flango]

So this tiresome old chestnut gets dragged out yet again.

You can make similar nonsense pronouncements about a gun without a bullet.

Well firstly thanks for taking this one liner out of the context of the rest of my post, I would suggest people read the whole of post #32 to guage my actual opinion on this subject.

Its time peolpe realised that Speed alone is not the problem but I agree may be a contributor to an incident. The accidents that are blamed on speed are usually down to loss of control of the vehicle and the ability of the driver not speed alone. (see #32)

People who promote the "speed kills" message only clog up our road system as we get bogged down by draconian measures and antiquated legislation, more speed cameras and motorists who are heavily fined for being a few mph over the limit, so thats fair is it? More mindless morons that dont know what they are talking about but quite happy to see it in legislation thats the sort of people we have making the traffic laws in this country, Instead of moaning about tiresome chestnuts, if you agree with the cash generation thats been raised out of the speeding campaign and motorists being fleeced then thats fine, you are entitled to your own opinion. But I for one decided to get up off my backside and try and change the perception from within, the training and lectures I give concentrate on car control, ability combined with speed and demonstrate that speed alone is not a killer.

A car in the wrong hands is a lethal weapon, so is a gun "loaded or not"

 

[flango]

Unfortunately the first driver in the queue did not understand the limited powers of the van

What limited powers of the van? AFAIK it has the same powers as any other police vehicle?

 

[wemorgan]

What limited powers of the van? AFAIK it has the same powers as any other police vehicle?

The only limitation I think I know is that if the driver is not 'pursuit' trained then he cannot pursue.
But clearly he's still capable of using his eyes and brain, so could take note of any registration plates and pass word to his colleagues.
Either way I treat all police cars the same way. Why risk it?

 

[219]

What limited powers of the van? AFAIK it has the same powers as any other police vehicle?

They have the same LEGAL power to stop a motorist as a traffic patrol car , and , indeed , as a beat bobby on foot patrol who could flag you down from the roadside ; you can even be taken to court for speeding based on the 'opinion' of an officer at the roadside , even though he had no speed measuring equipment !

 

[flango]

The only limitation I think I know is that if the driver is not 'pursuit' trained then he cannot pursue.
But clearly he's still capable of using his eyes and brain, so could take note of any registration plates and pass word to his colleagues.
Either way I treat all police cars the same way. Why risk it?

You are quite right, it only takes the opinions of 2 police officers to get a speeding conviction, they do not even need a speed measuring device to do this. People talk of the vans speedo is not calibrated so they can't prosecute, again another urban myth. 2 very prominent cases in South Yorkshire where both drivers were prosecuted.

2 Police officers in a Tactical Support van witnessed speeding on an A road where the car was well over the speed limits, they radioed this in and the car was stopped by traffic. FPN was issued but was contested in court by the driver as to what evidence was available to prove his speed. Conviction was secured on the statemnets of the Police van driver and his collegue with reference to the van speedo, which had beeen checked after the incident, so instead of £60 and 3 points he got far more than he bargained for.

Second incident was 2 officers who were off duty travelling home from the nick in their own car and were overtaken by a car apparently doing 70mph+ in a 40 mph limit. They reported the driver who was subsequently interviewed by traffic, identified by the other 2 off duty officers. The case went straight to court as driving without due care and the driver was prosecuted received a hefty fine and several points.

So I'm with you I don't think the type of vehicle matters unless it comes to a pursuit which is obviously only carried out by pursuit trained drivers only.

 

[renault12ts]

Well heres my take on it as an advanced driver trainer, Speed does NOT kill this is a misconception. The stats for speed killing on it's own are 0.

Speed without ability and speed without control DOES kill, a car in the wrong hands is a lethal weapon but in the right hands you are as safe as in your mothers womb.

Most speed related accidents come back to driver attitude and awareness, and again contrary to popular belief it is not age related either although there is no denying some of the chav mentality contributes. But I regularly get driven by an 18 year old in a 300 bhp Evo his car control and ability and reactions are second to none. Yet I would not even get in the car with one of my 70 year old relations who "thinks" he can drive better than everyone else.

It is just too easy to blame speed and minor infringements over the posted limit are great revenue earners for the government but pose little or no threat to public safety. Is 46 mph in a 40 mph limit such a crime? Is 85 mph acceptable on a motorway? You could argue it either way.

I have a problem with the fact that a 17 year old can pass their test, be on mummy and daddy's insurance take out their high powered sports car straight onto a motorway with no training or motorway driving experience and potentially kill innocent motorists who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think it's time we woke up to this problem and toughened up the test or had a system where the higher the power of the car you have to prove your ability to be able to drive it.

I agree. This is well reasoned. I have several police friends and have always argued that, usually, speed in itself does not kill. The statistics regarding speeding can be flawed. If, for instance, a speeding drunk driver causes death can it really be argued that speed killed? Surely it was the fact of being drunk which killed, and he could have killed at 30MPH. What about a fleeing car thief? Can he be compared to a normal road user in his attitude or demeanour? What about someone drugged to the eyeballs? What about some one excessively tired? How many ( % ) accidents are literally down to high speed in the wrong places?

 

[Mr E]

Two points on "Speed Kills":

1. It's a marketing message aimed at getting people to reduce speed. People remember it. People won't remember "speed inappropriate to the prevailing conditions, condition of the vehicle, ability of the driver, safety aids, etc, etc, is a major contributary factor in the outcome of any resultant unplanned incident".

2. While speed per ce may not be the single cause of a particular incident, it is a major factor in the outcome. In an effectively open system where a number of chaotic elements (such as drivers ) are introduced, then the control of speed would seem to be the most effective method of reducing the effects of these elements coming together.

The control of speed is not a blanket panacea but until a more effective method is proposed and implemented we are stuck with it.