55k cooling upgrade

[Ginger55k]

Ginger

Sorry I'm probably just being a bit thick but I'm not sure I really understand the graph and it's also quite difficult to read! I can see it looks better than your previous graph, but what is being recorded on the horizontal axis? I assume its time in seconds but....?

From your peak IAT what is your recovery time and temp fall?

Hi Simon

The numbers along the bottom is time based generated from the torque app, the blue peaks are engine load graphed to 100 % engine load, the red again scaled the same 0 to 100 in degrees, its the easiest way to graph it i think.

I would have to look again and do a comparison between peaks in IAT and recovery, what i would need to find is an identical point on throttle position between both graphs, however they are much faster falling than before.

ginger

 

[BlackC55]

Do you think it feels faster?

 

[Ginger55k]

Do you think it feels faster?

Too much traffic, not enough fuel left in the tank PCS testing. LOL

 

[BlackC55]

Plenty of time for testing..... I think we should do a timed 0-60

 

[Ginger55k]

Plenty of time for testing..... I think we should do a timed 0-60

I thought you already had, my feelings are this thing will now pull like a beast all day long without getting anywhere near engine retardation. bye bye clutch disengage.

 

[Ginger55k]

I have looked through the graphs and have tried to show a fair assessment of this upgrade as an engineer and applying strict rules.

Trying to compare the two individual graphs with all the other parameters which are not shown is difficult without it being held properly under scientific conditions i.e. on a dyno comparing and timing, throttle position, time on throttle , time off throttle, time between each WOT and so on.

There will be and are variables in the graphs as only a few seconds difference between pulls is going to affect temperature recovery times, and obviously the next WOT and temperature increase and recovery.

The following graph is showing and is the only fair and accurate graph of the difference between the upgrade pump and Eurocharged HE, and the addition of split cooling system with front mounted tank and KC.

The graph is extracted from both graphs after start normal engine warm up cycle and the first six second WOT, ambient air temp between the two trials runs was a 2 degree difference, 9c for the pump and HE mod, 7c for the split and KC system.

Series 1 KC throttle position.
Series 2 KC Temp.
Series 3 EC HE throttle position.
Series 4 EC HE Temp.

 

[Ginger55k]

Obviously this only shows a first pull, looking at the graphs the split cooling KC system reacts faster the more pulls you carry out.

But it would be unfair to try to compare further on in the graph range as there are to many uncontrolled parameters.

This system is never going to compare to a full on KC system as the efficiency is nowhere near that.

I still feel we are in a very strong position for any power mod without running into cooling issues.

My thought are probably to explore a plate heat exchanger fitted inside the tank which would improve the KC efficiency side of this mod.

 

[SavMan]

Very nice, what gear are you doing the pulls in?

I have found it best to be in 3rd gear manual mode for data gathering purposes, cruise along at around 2500rpm but keep the accelerator consistent so you have the supercharger clutch engaged. Then punch it hard!

Can you try a data run without KC on (presume it can just be switched off with the AC) would be interesting to see what a split system engine mounted tank does.

 

[Ginger55k]

Very nice, what gear are you doing the pulls in?

I have found it best to be in 3rd gear manual mode for data gathering purposes, cruise along at around 2500rpm but keep the accelerator consistent so you have the supercharger clutch engaged. Then punch it hard!

Can you try a data run without KC on (presume it can just be switched off with the AC) would be interesting to see what a split system engine mounted tank does.

It will have to be next weekend before I can do some more logging.

Do you have any before and after data for your own rear tank set up, what average gains did it produce at the time?, I was not sure what to expect to be honest and am not sure how effective the KC is.

However for those that do the quarter as you have stated before having that cold water waiting to go makes all the difference.

ginger

 

[SavMan]

Will see if I can pull some out particularly when I had a smaller pulley.

 

[Ginger55k]

I suppose what I meant was the normal temperature drop when cruising around, it looks like mine on average is 10 degrees lower after the split.

Again any figure you have is already going to be higher as you have mods already fitted which generates more heat, but it would give me some idea as to the difference if any between trunk and under hood mounted systems.

ginger

 

[SavMan]

I suppose what I meant was the normal temperature drop when cruising around, it looks like mine on average is 10 degrees lower after the split. Again any figure you have is already going to be higher as you have mods already fitted which generates more heat, but it would give me some idea as to the difference if any between trunk and under hood mounted systems. ginger

Sorry didn't get much time to log, had a 40 mile journey that took almost 3 hours. When I was moving at 60-70mph IAT was around 18-20C, ambient was 5-6C.

I don't think you will see the full benefit of KC until the spring/summer.

 

[Ginger55k]

Sorry didn't get much time to log, had a 40 mile journey that took almost 3 hours. When I was moving at 60-70mph IAT was around 18-20C, ambient was 5-6C.

I don't think you will see the full benefit of KC until the spring/summer.

Cheers Savman, actually with all your full on power mods your IAT's are pretty good, agree with you about the main benefits over the summer months.

Will try next time when logging cruising with the AC off for a period then with it on, the only problem I can see is that the IC pump will kick in and out as commanded by the ECU.

It may have been better for us to have the pump running continuous for us to see the results more clearly with AC on then off?

 

[BlackC55]

This tank will now be available to buy very soon. As a kit form or we can fit it for you.

 

[Ginger55k]

Pulley and Remap today fitted by Jack and Graham at PCS, many thanks.

Horrible weather and traffic on way home so no giving it the beans

Initial thoughts in slow stop start traffic is a better throttle response at lower revs, it feels less jerky and is definitely smoother through the lower rev range.

Looking forward to testing the other end of the revs

Will update this thread with data logging graphs of before and after this upgrade regarding the cooling mod.

 

[Ginger55k]

Tested upper rev range

 

[Ginger55k]

The next stage of testing Olly's (PCS) designed split cooling and front tank system involved the fitting of a Eurocharged pulley and map.

This has increased the IAT's as the supercharger boost levels have also increased generating more heat.

A very aggressive 11 second rolling WOT was carried out to see how the system performed.

The graph below again shows the throttle position in blue and IAT's in red with a 1 second capture of temperatures plotted.

The graph posted at #66 showed the difference from stock with EC HE and stock split/tank showing a difference of around 10 degrees better than previous.

The fitting of the pulley and map has increased the temperatures back to the level of a stock set up with EC HE and new pump.

This has demonstrated how important it is to control the cooling if modding either crank or supercharger pulley.

Summary:

1) Make sure your IC pump is working efficiently.
2) Fitting a larger HE increases efficiency over the stock system.
3) Biggest gains are the split cooling and tank (not forgetting the tank size in relation to the volume of water within the system.)
4) The benefits of the front tank over the rear tank setup I believe are flow rates as the pump suction has a head of water acting on it making the pump more efficient and much shorter hose lengths.
5) I believe we have only scratched the surface with the KC element as the design could be further explored and improved with the addition of a plate type HE fitted inside the tank.
6) With a split and tank system there is a much faster drop in peak IAT's maintaining maximum power delivery.
7) This setup will really benefit the 55's in the summer months.

 

[Ginger55k]

The fitting of the pulley and map has increased the temperatures back to the level of a stock set up with EC HE and new pump.

Oops I meant the peak temperature and not the baseline one, sorry for any confusion.

GINGER

 

[Ginger55k]

Data logging carried out while on the rollers at SRR.

Ignore the first couple of throttle spikes as the torque monster tried to bite the the operator what better way of testing the system than max throttle inside a room really putting some strain on the cooling system.

First proper power run 26 degrees to 44 annd back to 28.

Last power run 28 degrees to 46 and back to 31

 

[guyvert1]

Nice quick cool down Do you have the front mounted one ?