Charles Morgan
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Prat !
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MOCAŠ
MB Enthusiast
I know I said I would not come back into this discussion .
However , that raises a valid and highly relevant point .
Many websites are written by faceless , pen-pushing administrators who are far removed from the realities of operational , front line staff . They spew out 'policy' which may well originate from their political masters , the 'Sir Humphries' of this world , if you like . Much of what is written there is not the policy of even senior operational staff . Ask any serving traffic officer and they will almost certainly tell you to do as I did under the circumstances . As is often the case , the 'policy' will originate with good intentions , no doubt brought about by abuses of the system such as dialling 999 over a missed train or broken toenail . Most , but alas not all , people do have sufficient common sense and good judgement to know the difference between something which merits calling out the emergency services and that which does not .
Many large organisations , emergency services , hospitals etc suffer from this affliction of bungling over administration at the expense of common sense .
Even as a nation , we sometimes suffer barmy and absurd rulings from the European Parliament governing such important matters as the degree of bend a bananna must have , or ordering farmers to dump perfectly good produce and paying perfectly good money for it .
Just because something is dreamed up by a bureaucrat , and published somewhere , does not make it right .
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jepho
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Shock! Horror!
News at Ten - Derek does not carry out mindless acts just because they were written down by a bureaucrat.
I am glad that you don't.
stwat said:So what are the credentials and true life experiences that you hold Nick, to enable you to argue your case against real members of the emergency services who encounter the outcome of such cases of bad driving day in day out ?
I'm very interested to know as are many members here
Yeah +1
HughJarse
MB Enthusiast
Playing devils advocate here a little:
I think it all boils down to opinion of what actually is bad driving and what is dangerous driving.
The best example I can think of is; what my 77 yr old mum constitues as dangerous driving, is generally bad driving. Now if she was to ring 999 every time she occasioned "dangerous" driving she would be in trouble.
I do think the OP gave a pretty good description of dangerous driving, however can see Nicks point that its actually not a clear cut situation and one of opinion.
I also noticed Black Rats carefully worded response ( saying it was his opinion and not necessarily that of the service) that the driving had to fall well below a certain standard - but... What actually is that standard??
There are many responses around should you wait until an accident occurs before you ring? Well I see poor drivers everyday that could potentially kill someone. To address the response about a someone wielding a machette, a car travelling at 30mph could potentially do a lot more damage to a crowd of people, and that happens everyday in cities, where the car is literally 50cm away from crowds.
Its all opinion, so this "argument" is never going to be won.
I think it all boils down to opinion of what actually is bad driving and what is dangerous driving.
The best example I can think of is; what my 77 yr old mum constitues as dangerous driving, is generally bad driving. Now if she was to ring 999 every time she occasioned "dangerous" driving she would be in trouble.
I do think the OP gave a pretty good description of dangerous driving, however can see Nicks point that its actually not a clear cut situation and one of opinion.
I also noticed Black Rats carefully worded response ( saying it was his opinion and not necessarily that of the service) that the driving had to fall well below a certain standard - but... What actually is that standard??
There are many responses around should you wait until an accident occurs before you ring? Well I see poor drivers everyday that could potentially kill someone. To address the response about a someone wielding a machette, a car travelling at 30mph could potentially do a lot more damage to a crowd of people, and that happens everyday in cities, where the car is literally 50cm away from crowds.
Its all opinion, so this "argument" is never going to be won.
nick mercedes
MB Enthusiast
Surely it reflects the views and aims of those tasked with running the service, which may not be shared by all those further down the food chain, but after all are the policy to adhear to?
it's a fine line between crime being commited and crime ABOUT to be commited.
i mean technically, until Derrick Bird opened fire on his first victim he wasn't doing anything illegal.. he owned his guns legally, and was allowed to transport them.
would i have phoned 999 if i'd seen him with a shotgun? of course i would...
but according to some that would have a been a waste of resources, and until he opened fire it wouldn't warrant a phone call to the emergency number.
i also agree with the idea that it's a very fine line between a bad driver, and one that will possibly cause death by dangerous driving (which last time i checked was a crime AS WELL as a traffic offence) and i'd hope that most of us can drive well enough to spot those that are going to cause this.
i guess the main thing is if your left at whatever incident wondering "should i phone 999, or should i just look up a non emergency number" then it's probably not that serious. However if your thinking "jesus, someone needs to stop this lunatic now" then it's a 999 call.
nick mercedes
MB Enthusiast
It's clear that the 999 lines are under considerable strain due to a high percentage of innapproriate calls:
"More than 2.2 million people dialled 999 in London alone over the past year. Of those, only about 500,000 were legitimate calls that required an emergency response, the Met says."
Given that the police and the home office both clearly state that incidents of dangerous driving should be reported either on the regular non emergency phone line or at your local police station, why would anyone argue otherwise.
If you see someone driving the wrong way up a duel carriageway or with an axe imbedded in their head by all means dial 999, but if you see what you consider to be an example of dangerous driving and are so inclined to want to report it, please don't use a phone line set aside for emergencies.
nick mercedes
MB Enthusiast
snoop51
Active Member
I think given the OP's description of the driving standard he witnessed that yes the idiot in the Rover needed to be taken of the road in much the same way as a dangerous dog can be shot to protect members of the public.
Anyone using the offslip as an overtaking lane then swerving back out onto the main carriageway or swerving across all 3 lanes whilst forcing others to emergency brake is an accident waiting (not very patiently IMHO) to happen.
I'm glad there are people like the OP who will ring this sort of behaviour through. It could have been mine or someone else on here's inexperienced son or daughter who was forced to swerve causing them to be involved in an accident further down the road.
So the phone line is tied up, consequently someone trying to report there greenhouse window has been smashed can't get through or the cat stays up the tree a bit longer. A nutter has been taken of the roads hopefully this will save / have saved someone else's life.
Anyone using the offslip as an overtaking lane then swerving back out onto the main carriageway or swerving across all 3 lanes whilst forcing others to emergency brake is an accident waiting (not very patiently IMHO) to happen.
I'm glad there are people like the OP who will ring this sort of behaviour through. It could have been mine or someone else on here's inexperienced son or daughter who was forced to swerve causing them to be involved in an accident further down the road.
So the phone line is tied up, consequently someone trying to report there greenhouse window has been smashed can't get through or the cat stays up the tree a bit longer. A nutter has been taken of the roads hopefully this will save / have saved someone else's life.
nick mercedes
MB Enthusiast
People who undertake or force their way into the traffic are as dangerous as killer dogs??
Some sense of perspective is needed...
again you miss the point, he didn't JUST undertake or force his way into traffic, by the OP's description he did it in such a dangerous manner that it was lucky that no-one was involved in an accident... someone driving like that, can do alot more damage than my german shepherd could do if she decided to turn.
snoop51
Active Member
Potentially more so! How many people can a dangerous dog (I didn't say killer) kill at once? A dangerous dog is one which has the potential to kill or maim, it hasn't necessarily killed anyone yet. It may have only bitten someone but it can still have it's life terminated even if it was kept away from people by a caged run. So it hasn't killed anyone yet but it dies!
How many people can die in a multi vehicle pile up on the motorway?
Watch Worst Motorway Pile Up Ever Caught On Camera Video | Break.com
10 March 1997: M42 motorway in the United Kingdom, due to fog – 160 vehicles involved, 3 deaths, 60 injuries
I know the last one says due to fog but really what did the fog do come down and grab hold of someone's steering wheel. No someONE drove badly for the bad conditions was really the cause.
nick mercedes
MB Enthusiast
Forced his way into the outside lane:
"in one swift movement , cross all three lanes"
Undertakes 2 lorries:
"guns it past two lorries in the left lane before coming back into the outside lane two vehicles further ahead"
There's also some mention of overtaking on the right...
So while no doubt not the best piece of driving ever witnessed, not really any sort of emergency.
nick mercedes
MB Enthusiast
It depends how big it is.
snoop51
Active Member
Nick In your opinion is this acceptable (please ignore the fact the numpty filming is driving as well)
YouTube - Bad Driving‏
or this?
YouTube - Motorway madness‏
YouTube - Bad Driving‏
or this?
YouTube - Motorway madness‏
My only thought, based on someone driving like the OP reported is "that's been nicked" so i'd be tempted to report it if i was pulling over somewhere.
Cutting someone up once is bad driving and not worth getting stressed about, happens all the time with the drivers round here. However, if the car was going slowly, weaving about etc etc, i'd call 999 as a potential drunk before they killed someone.
At the end of the day, it is a judgement call only the person there at the time can make and they need a large dose of commonsense to do it, something I'm sure the OP has.
m.
Cutting someone up once is bad driving and not worth getting stressed about, happens all the time with the drivers round here. However, if the car was going slowly, weaving about etc etc, i'd call 999 as a potential drunk before they killed someone.
At the end of the day, it is a judgement call only the person there at the time can make and they need a large dose of commonsense to do it, something I'm sure the OP has.
m.
snoop51
Active Member
Not really it's still only got one mouth, it can't rip multiple throats out at the same time can it.
A car being driven like it's been stolen or by someone who doesn't care can potentially cause huge pile ups on motorways involving motorbikes, cars, minibuses / vans, coaches, LGV's in order of perceived vulnerability.
