The EV fact thread

[markjay]

BTW, the reason that Chinese car manufacturers can do that, and also the reason why they will always be able to compete with Western manufacturers, is that they do not operate in real market environment. Instead, the China Development Bank (CDB), owned by the Chinese government, loans them almost endless amounts of money to overcome any commercial obstacles if the Chinese government thinks that the business is in the national interest (and they see the flooding of the West with cheap Chinese EVs as certainly in their national interest).

 

[Petrol Pete]

One only has to spend just a few hours studying the Chinese 'economy' to realise what a complete clusterfruck it is . All lies.

 

[clk320x]

It's interesting how some individuals who regularly purchase products made in China (such as consumer electronics, home appliances etc) express concern about electric cars being manufactured there, highlighting a potential inconsistency in their stance on global manufacturing practices.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

A view from Toyota
Electric cars will never dominate - Toyota
The Mail

And he's absolutely right, as we've known from the beginning.

But European and North American voters have voted for the EV transition, to reduce the CO2 causing climate change and improve Energy Security.

Taking power from Nuclear and renewables is more reliable, and cheaper than being dependent on Russia, Iran and the Saudis for energy.

As the article carefully says, it's the rest of the world that will have trouble switching to BEV, not Europeans who have 240 volt electricity in every home, lamppost, and car park.

A billion people live without electricity.

From your article, written by the ex-CEO of Toyota, who moved aside to become Chairman a year ago, after heavy criticism of Toyota's slowness to convert to EV:

 

[davymead]

Can’t say I’m in any way happy to sit on the fence and watch, but from where I’m sitting there’s a fearful amount of debt been accrued globally by manufacturers, who are seemingly looking to sell white elephants at a knock down price.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

One only has to spend just a few hours studying the Chinese 'economy' to realise what a complete clusterfruck it is . All lies.

Aye, and what do you make of the Country that's going to elect Trump again this year as "47 ?"

Here's the 500% growth of the NASDAQ over the last decade.... All driven by "The Magnificent Seven."

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

It's interesting how some individuals who regularly purchase products made in China (such as consumer electronics, home appliances etc) express concern about electric cars being manufactured there, highlighting a potential inconsistency in their stance on global manufacturing practices.

Oh, that's not fair !

It's interesting how people who fill their homes with furniture, clothing, and technology made in Asia.... (because it's cheaper than European stuff)

whine about cars being assembled in Asia,

instead of just being full of, and totally dependent on, crucial technology in ICE vehicles which has been made in Asia for more than the last decade.

And then there's the desire to remain dependent on fuels controlled by the Saudis, Iranians, Russkies and Yanks.

Saudi Arabia, other OPEC+ producers announce voluntary oil output cuts

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia will voluntarily reduce its oil production by 500,000 barrels per day from May until the end of 2023 in coordination with other members of the oil producers’ alliance, the Saudi Press Agency reported on Sunday. Russia’s deputy prime minister also said Moscow would extend a...

www.arabnews.com

.

 

[Petrol Pete]

let's face it even Toyota would struggle to convert this lot to EV's . Toyota is looking after it's customers in countries where not everyone has access to electricity .

Diesel/petrol ? check ,7.62mm and .50 cal ? check , clean 240V supply .? ...."err no boss..."

Hilux , Land Cruiser. Absolute frucking legends.

 

[SmartAmg]

Maybe they just put them here with all the other abandoned EV's

View attachment 152314 View attachment 152315 View attachment 152316

Sorry , couldnt resist.

Similar to all the stock-piled ICE
cars, no doubt.


Sorry couldn't, resist.

 

[SmartAmg]

let's face it even Toyota would struggle to convert this lot to EV's . Toyota is looking after it's customers in countries where not everyone has access to electricity .

Diesel/petrol ? check ,7.62mm and .50 cal ? check , clean 240V supply .? ...."err no boss..."

Hilux , Land Cruiser. Absolute frucking legends.

View attachment 152321 View attachment 152322 View attachment 152323

That's pretty obvious, if you've got a poor Leccy supply, or no Leccy supply.Then don't buy a bl00dy EV.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

BTW, the reason that Chinese car manufacturers can do that, and also the reason why they will always be able to compete with Western manufacturers, is that they do not operate in real market environment. Instead, the China Development Bank (CDB), owned by the Chinese government, loans them almost endless amounts of money to overcome any commercial obstacles if the Chinese government thinks that the business is in the national interest (and they see the flooding of the West with cheap Chinese EVs as certainly in their national interest).

Isn't that simply marginal pricing?

You cover overheads by your production for the home market, and then sell extra volume, at marginal cost?

Although it does help that land and people are cheap, and that the Town Planners in China aren't Liberal Democrats trying to preserve their historic Paddy fields.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Similar to all the stock-piled ICE
cars, no doubt.
View attachment 152324
View attachment 152325
Sorry couldn't, resist.

Not quite stockpiled in those photos , spaced for delivery and movement. An aerial shot of just about any car plant or the Avonmouth docks back in the day could give you the same image.

Me posting the photos of piles of crappy Chinese EV's was an attempt a humour. But I realise discussing EV's and any type of humour (even my weak attempt) do not go hand in hand.

 

[markjay]

A view from Toyota

Electric cars will never dominate - Toyota
The Mail

Elon Musk said that in future "everything will be electric, apart for spaceships". So we have Mr. Musk vs Mr. Toyoda. Time will tell...

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

In other news, my self-employed chum to whom I recommended the Tesla Y and Nissan Leaf as "no-brainer" choices as a local second car, to replace an Audi S3, is putting in his order today.

£215 a month (plus reclaimable VAT) for a brand new Nissan Leaf.

Which he'll fuel on his driveway at a cost of around 5p a mile.

And then there's the reduced insurance and RFL

One more vehicle converted to EV, so that we don't have to

 

[markjay]

...Me posting the photos of piles of crappy Chinese EV's was an attempt a humour...

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[Bobby Dazzler]

Maybe they just put them here with all the other abandoned EV's

View attachment 152314 View attachment 152315 View attachment 152316

Sorry , couldnt resist.

I know you were joking although China does have form for stockpiling stuff for the future and keeping the cogs of strategic industries turning:

 

[markjay]

That's pretty obvious, if you've got a poor Leccy supply, or no Leccy supply.Then don't buy a bl00dy EV.

True. And, it's not only Toyotas in the developing world.... as someone who lives in a flat and regularly charge my EV on a public charger at 5 times the domestic night rate, I would be peeved if I had a house and a drive but had to charge on public chargers and could not take advantage of cheap electricity due to 'supply issues'.

 

[ALFAitalia]

let's face it even Toyota would struggle to convert this lot to EV's . Toyota is looking after it's customers in countries where not everyone has access to electricity .

Diesel/petrol ? check ,7.62mm and .50 cal ? check , clean 240V supply .? ...."err no boss..."

Hilux , Land Cruiser. Absolute frucking legends.

View attachment 152321 View attachment 152322 View attachment 152323

There was even a war called the Hilux War (sometimes The Toyota War)....such was the prevalence of Toyota vehicles in that conflict!!!

Toyota War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[markjay]

Hilux , Land Cruiser. Absolute frucking legends.

View attachment 152321 View attachment 152322 View attachment 152323

The Toyotas used by Hamas on 7th October and abandoned in Israel will be traceable via their VINs.

So don't be surprised if people involved in the international trade of Toyota light trucks will start dying in mysterious accidents.....

 

[markjay]

Diesel/petrol ? check ,7.62mm and .50 cal ?

PK, KPV, and ZSU are the favourites here...