The EV fact thread

[Deleted member 55947]

A view from Toyota

Electric cars will never dominate - Toyota
The Mail

 

[ChipChop]

You need to look into that a bit more.... net zero is fairly easily achievable... but only if every country plays its part.... which of course they won't. Some seem to confuse the near impossible "no carbon output" with "net zero"...two very different things. Won't happen in my life though

Transforming the energy, materials & manufacturing, construction, transport and food & agriculture sectors of Western democracies is "fairly easily achievable"? I think not.

May well be easier to transform society in a country such as China thanks to its authoritarian regime. Not so easy in Western democracies where people will simply vote out of power those who evidently do not have their best national interests at heart. Having lofty net zero political amibitions will always lose out when the real costs for the man on the street are too high.

 

[davymead]

You need to look into that a bit more.... net zero is fairly easily achievable... but only if every country plays its part.... which of course they won't. Some seem to confuse the near impossible "no carbon output" with "net zero"...two very different things. Won't happen in my life though

Only a small amount of research connected by common sense should be enough to convince even the most fervent detractor.

 

[BTB 500]

While I agree with you completely on cheap used ICE - my son has just bought exactly that kind of Golf 1.4TSI for that kind of money, which gives him 50mpg.... And a very nice manual car it is too.

Your claim of a "win" over BEV is false, because you're comparing used with brand new, when you say it's a big saving compared to a £35k BEV hatchback.

No it's just a big saving over new. A new ICE VW Golf for him would start at £30k including the bits he needs.

I was just replying to a suggestion that the cash purchase of a new sub-£40k BEV right now was an effective way to get cheap motoring. There are fewer new small petrol ICEs to choose from nowadays, so including low mileage used makes more sense IMHO. But if brand new is really a requirement then petrol Peugeot/Citroen/Hyundai etc. models start at £14k or so, and I think would still work out significantly cheaper over 10 years even if you have access to very cheap charging. As I said if somebody simply wants to have a new small BEV (for whatever reason) then that's absolutely fine. But I don't believe this can (currently) be justified on the basis of saving money.

 

[ALFAitalia]

A view from Toyota

Electric cars will never dominate - Toyota
The Mail

Only in countries that don't make it a legal requirement....in the UK (and many other places) they clearly will dominate after 2035....due to anyone wanting a brand new car not having any choice but to buy EV.!

 

[Bellow]

Gas from grass.

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[grober]

Hinkley C: UK nuclear plant price tag could rocket by a third

EDF says final costs could soar by about a third as it faces a delayed completion date.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Noitz]

Oh dear...

‘If you turn up the heat on cold days, the range reduces’ – TD hits out as Bus Éireann admits battery problems with electric buses pilot

Bus Éireann has admitted deficiencies in its electric bus services in Athlone, with services curtailed because their batteries ebb in cold weather.

m.independent.ie

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I suspect there is an underlying issue with the EQC. These are genuinely premium cars. But they don't quite cut it in the EV market - and add to that the contraction in the EV market. Double whammy. Normally MB would pass them through on cheap leases or through the dealers as 'management; cars. But there is likely too much stock - and they feel they have to register them. And not enough market. So we're seeing something unusual for MB.

Here’s a very similarly priced car, which has been reduced in price by a very similar £2k, to - very similar £48k.

5 years in... | AMG Lounge

The larger fuel tank option was discontinued early on from what I’ve read (mores the pity!) Hyacinth red doesn’t suit the car (IMO), unless you want a proper Q-car (the one I looked at looked at was simply too anonymous). In all the cars I looked at, I never saw one with CCB’s. There’s no oil...

forums.mbclub.co.uk

As a petrol ICE car at 5-6 years and 30k miles it doesn’t really fit the hypothesis that the £2k reduction in price is because it isn’t cutting as an EV, and that the EV market is contracting. The same 4% reduction on a £50k car, but an AMG ICE rather than EQ..

It definitely doesn’t fit the more damning and sensationalist narrative from others that the EV market specifically is on it’s knees. This is much older in relative terms and so a 4% reduction is much more significant in the context of its depreciation curve.

The whole car market is falling rapidly - correcting the artificially inflated prices in the last couple of years - but it’s affecting all cars, not just EQ, not just EV, but even the cars thought to be much better, ie older petrol ICE. It’s even affecting the Porsche 992 GT3.

 

[Mactech]

Old hat now are EV’s apparently
View attachment 152256

I can only guess that must be a Herbie-vore?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Oh dear...

‘If you turn up the heat on cold days, the range reduces’ – TD hits out as Bus Éireann admits battery problems with electric buses pilot

Bus Éireann has admitted deficiencies in its electric bus services in Athlone, with services curtailed because their batteries ebb in cold weather.

m.independent.ie

Get away. This article is filled with ground-breaking hard-hitting and undeniable facts.

EV range is affected by cold weather, and so may need to be charged sooner than it would in warmer weather.

The temperature inside an EV bus can be controlled but consumes energy to do so, in this case electricity.

Brand new EV buses used on a small scale trial (to learn about EV bus use) currently cost more than common diesel buses.

Politicians from opposing sides will use absolutely blooming anything for the purpose of political point scoring:

“It is scandalous the way taxpayers’ money is being wasted by Minister Ryan,” he said.

Such scandalous wastes of taxpayers money absolutely wouldn’t happen on Mr Fitzmaurice‘watch, that’s for sure!

 

[Dryce]

Here’s a very similarly priced car, which has been reduced in price by a very similar £2k, to - very similar £48k.

That completely misses the point that MB are basically dumping new cars by registering them and deep discounting and then still have to discount further.

That's remarkable.

If you want to compare with three year+ EV prices you'd have a rather more reasonable comparison.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

That completely misses the point that MB are basically dumping new cars by registering them and deep discounting and then still have to discount further.

That's remarkable.

Is pre-registering new cars - or offering discounts on new cars - really remarkable?

Pre-registering brand new cars is nothing new or unusual, it’s been common practice across the industry for many years, including Mercedes.

It provides a means of achieving month-end, quarter-end and year-end targets sales targets for dealers, and production targets for the manufacturers..

Those pre-registered cars are then either sold as brand new and pre-registered, used as demos and courtesy cars for a very short while and sold as used cars.

It was this practice which created the car supermarket around three decades ago, and of which there are many, with stick from all brands, including Mercedes.

It enables the industry to balance supply and demand. It keeps the whole industry moving by selling cars at a lower price to buyers who wouldn’t have bought new.

Supply chain limitations has reduced it in recent years when demand exceeded artificially short period, but we’re back to supply exceeding demand.

It makes sense at the moment to pre-register new cars rather than discount them because it keeps list price higher for new car buyers which is mostly businesses.

Businesses will continue to buy new rather than pre-registered - even if the sticker price is higher - because of the tax advantages to them and the end user.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If you want to compare with three year+ EV prices you'd have a rather more reasonable comparison.

Been done to death but feel free.

In this case though, once the car was pre-registered and in dealer stock it became a used car, so my comments were about 4% reductions of £50k on used cars, rather than whether EV or ICE depreciate most.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Pre-registering brand new cars is nothing new or unusual, it’s been common practice across the industry for many years, including Mercedes.

Was certainly happening at least as far back as the 80s when i first started selling new cars.......all marques did it.....but far more common in the mass produced stuff like Ford and Vauxhall where market share was everything.

 

[markjay]

That completely misses the point that MB are basically dumping new cars by registering them and deep discounting and then still have to discount further.

That's remarkable.

If you want to compare with three year+ EV prices you'd have a rather more reasonable comparison.

Again, my understanding is that you can only have a business lease on a new car, but not on a second hand (or pre-registered) one.

This means that EVs pre-registered by the dealership will have to be sold to private owners (with or without finance).

And so, either the dealers believe that there's a strong market for private purchases of EVs, or I don't understand what they're doing.

 

[Dryce]

And so, either the dealers believe that there's a strong market for private purchases of EVs, or I don't understand what they're doing.

Or.

Insufficient market / costs to lease to high for finance division to take on.

Cars registered and auctioned off at deep discount to dealers on the assumption that the private market will snap them up (quickly?).

IMO it's odd and unusual.

 

[markjay]

Or.

Insufficient market / costs to lease to high for finance division to take on.

Cars registered and auctioned off at deep discount to dealers on the assumption that the private market will snap them up (quickly?).

IMO it's odd and unusual.

We'll, the key question is where do all these pre-registered EVs end-up then?

If they are auctioned off, then ultimately somewhere at the end of the chain there a private buyer bagging a good deal on an EV.

And yet the general notion seems to be that EVs are unaffordable and that private buyers shun them.

It's all very confusing.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Maybe they just put them here with all the other abandoned EV's



Sorry , couldnt resist.

 

[markjay]

Maybe they just put them here with all the other abandoned EV's

View attachment 152314 View attachment 152315 View attachment 152316

Sorry , couldnt resist.

Yup:

China’s Abandoned, Obsolete Electric Cars Are Piling Up in Cities

A subsidy-fueled boom helped build China into an electric-car giant but left weed-infested lots across the nation brimming with unwanted battery-powered vehicles.

www.bloomberg.com

It serves as a reminder that economic policies made by the totalitarian central government of a Communist regime are always doomed to fail

And then they tell us that our "free market' economy is bad........