Bellow
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Eventually, that will happen. I don't expect them all to carry on as they are then cease on the day the last ICE car is scrapped.
The EV fact thread
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MikeInWimbledon
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Worry about the Red Yellow and Green alliance (Labour, Liberal and Greens) increasing the taxes on fuel and extending ULEZ to Shetland first.
Votes don't just buy themselves you know.
Them there wicked Oil companies will keep making fuel as long as its wanted.
ALFAitalia
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I don't think anyone expects oil production to cease for 50 years plus....personally I don't think it will ever happen......it will just be on a much smaller scale. Forgetting transport just think of all the millions of other things that use oil in their manufacture.....even some very important drugs. Certain forms of chemotherapy also have core petroleum-derived ingredients called nitrogen mustards. Most pharmaceuticals come from petrochemicals. Carboxylic acids and anhydrides are used to make Novocaine and acetaminophen as well as sedatives, tranquilizers, decongestants, antihistamines, and antibacterial soaps.
philnewmerc
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Thread drift.... Can we get back to bashing EVs please? 
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It's not EV bashing, it's EV facts dontchaknowThread drift.... Can we get back to bashing EVs please?
Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
I do. Which is why on one hand I want EVs to succeed to avoid punitive taxation on ICE (fuel. VED, ULEZ) to shimmy the transition along while on the other hand, EV success means earlier running down of oil production and at some point economy of scale halting it all - notwithstanding the need for oil for things other than fuel.
The aviation industry will drive further developments in 'sustainable' fuels, which may spill over into ICE road use. We're not going to have battery powered airliners in the foreseeable future (if ever). Or ships come to that (yes I know there are a few short-range electric ferries, but carrying freight from China is a different proposition).
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Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
The thing with Musk is that it's impossible to tell if he is referring to life here or on Mars.
If it were known that Mars was rich in oil, his view might be different.
What point in producing ICE when fuel production is disappearing?
Shell to Produce Group III in Germany - Lubes'N'Greases
Shell last week announced plans to convert a fuels refinery in Wesseling, Germany, to produce API Group III base oils. The company will cease fuels production but will use an existing hydrocracker to make base oil.www.lubesngreases.com
Eni to Shutter Livorno Base Oil Plant - Lubes'N'Greases
Italian refiner Eni stated Monday that the base oil plant at its Livorno, Italy, fuels refinery will close permanently when the site converts to refining plant oils. The fate of the base oil plant was confirmed as the company announced it is proceeding to convert the overall refinery, an...
No surprises at all in the above links.
The Italian factory is stopping production of Group I and group II base oils. Well Group I is rubbish and went out with the dinosaurs and group II is not much better so closure will be due to there being precious little market for those products as a finished base oil although they could be used as the feedstock to make Group III.
All quality modern engine oils are based on Group 3 or better so that will be why shell are investing in Group 3 production which will still be needed for IC's around the world and for EV's.
I never had you down as a chemist, or is that copy and paste from Google?
ALFAitalia
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Google!... from the word "most"!
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Haha, he's a nutter
Rolls-Royce have been pretty active in electric aircraft propulsion for some time, but have now abandoned it.
Liquid ammonia seems to be a potential solution for ships - MAN are at a pretty advanced stage with this:
The case for two-stroke ammonia engines
Why newbuild and retrofit ammonia engines are key for the maritime energy transition.
www.man-es.com
Toyota have also built a 2 litre 4 cylinder ammonia engine suitable for road car use. It's much closer to fossil fuels in terms of storage and transport requirements than hydrogen:
GAC and Toyota develop ammonia engine for 90% CO2 reduction | Autocar
Four-cylinder engine is the first ammonia-fuelled engine for passenger cars; could be a hydrogen alternative
MikeInWimbledon
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Electric ferries?
Aren't they just the hybrids that are designed not to pollute their destination towns and cities?
Fundamentally powered by dirty dirty oil, switching to electric as they cruise into port, during their stay in Port, and then cruising out into open see on battery power, before powering up the oil again ?
No hint of an ambition to power the journey.
Or are these something new?
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Haha, he's a nutter
Your comment reminds me of something that happened 20 years ago.
One of our clients was a family-owned business, they owned several 5-star hotels around London and were quite wealthy, as you might expect. The father was called internally 'Mr A' (his initial) and was known for his 'crazy' ideas and his demanding personality.
I had regular meetings with their accountant, a very knowledgeable and mild manners chap nearing retirement.
On one occasion, when I commented that one of the requirements made to us by Mr A didn't seem to make sense, the accountant replied: "I've been working with Mr A for the past 20 years, time after time I've tried in vain to stop him from making the wrong business decisions, but after 20 years he's now worth £100m while I've got just barely enough saved for my retirement, and so I figured that maybe I shouldn't be trying to stop Mr A from making the wrong decisions"
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Yep, made a very interesting read earlier. Toyota’s involvement would normally indorse credibility.Haha, he's a nutter
Rolls-Royce have been pretty active in electric aircraft propulsion for some time, but have now abandoned it.
Liquid ammonia seems to be a potential solution for ships - MAN are at a pretty advanced stage with this:
The case for two-stroke ammonia engines
Why newbuild and retrofit ammonia engines are key for the maritime energy transition.
Toyota have also built a 2 litre 4 cylinder ammonia engine suitable for road car use. It's much closer to fossil fuels in terms of storage and transport requirements than hydrogen:
GAC and Toyota develop ammonia engine for 90% CO2 reduction | Autocar
Four-cylinder engine is the first ammonia-fuelled engine for passenger cars; could be a hydrogen alternativewww.autocar.co.uk
There have been a small number of fully electric ferries for some time e.g.
MV Ampere - Wikipedia
Norway is a pioneer because they have short routes across fjords that suit the limited range, plus lots of cheap hydroelectric power. I think there are others now that have more range (up to 50 miles?) with diesel engines for emergency use only. Small passenger ferries are more feasible for battery-only power so there are more of those about.
Plenty of hybrids though that work as you mentioned. There's been a scandal in the Orkneys recently where one needs new batteries at a cost of £1.5 million after 12 years. The lead time is 18 months, during which it will be running exclusively on diesel!
I remember seeing this on here before - £1.5m over 12 years probably isn’t that significant in the grand scheme of things (£125k a year, £342 a day) relative to the cost of running engines on a vessel of that size?
I mean purchasing, servicing, repairs and possibly replacement after a decade or more of service - that’s ignoring any environmental considerations or possible fuel costs etc.
To me it doesn’t seem unreasonable to be replacing batteries after 12 years but perhaps it makes a good story!
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I don't know who'll come out trump here, Musk or Toyoda, but one of them is bound to be proven wrong.
And it won't be the first time that market leaders got it wrong:
“Television won’t be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night.”
Darryl Zanuck, executive at 20th Century Fox, 1946
“There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.”
Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1977
There are any other examples.....
And it won't be the first time that market leaders got it wrong:
“Television won’t be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night.”
Darryl Zanuck, executive at 20th Century Fox, 1946
“There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.”
Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1977
There are any other examples.....
