The EV fact thread

[Bellow]

My next incursion into the Continent is being planned as we speak, and I will be driving my EV (unless they ban them from the 'LeShuttle'), hence no air transportation involved.

The recent previous trip (Switzerland?)?

 

[BTB 500]

The necessity for travelling everywhere by our privately-owned personal mobility vehicles - because modern life is structured such that without them a person cannot fulfil all that is needed in a day.

While we're talking about modern life the continued growth of online grocery shopping is interesting. Very handy for those with reduced mobility etc. but increasingly popular with younger people who just "don't have time" to go to the shops themselves and prefer to have it delivered to their front door instead. AFAIK most of the delivery vans are still diesels, although I think Tesco are starting to use BEVs (maybe others too).

 

[markjay]

The recent previous trip (Switzerland?)?

Going back to the same place, but this time driving all the way there - in my EV. Well, that's the plan, anyway.

 

[Bellow]

Going back to the same place, but this time driving all the way there - in my EV. Well, that's the plan, anyway.

Fair play, this time you are eschewing flying but you did fly the last time while all the time exhorting others to reduce their driving when much of it is absolutely essential. This time you are driving (and unless your electricity for that is renewably generated) there is still a CO2 component to that. Relative to car use for the daily necessities (getting to and from paid employment, doctor's appointments, shopping, etc, etc) how do you justify your trip with your assertions that everyone should drive less?

 

[markjay]

Fair play, this time you are eschewing flying but you did fly the last time while all the time exhorting others to reduce their driving when much of it is absolutely essential. This time you are driving (and unless your electricity for that is renewably generated) there is still a CO2 component to that. Relative to car use for the daily necessities (getting to and from paid employment, doctor's appointments, shopping, etc, etc) how do you justify your trip with your assertions that everyone should drive less?

My EV does under 2,000 miles a year (I am yet to take it abroad). I drive the car far less than I used to. These days, I mostly walk or take public transport where possible. I am not opposed to people travelling. I'm just thinking that the congestion on our roads is the result of the private car still being the most convenient alternative for most people, and this should not be the case. As for CO2, I am not sure that there's a mode of transport that has no CO2 signature, certainly the transition to EV is not going to solve this particular problem.

 

[Noitz]

Our insatiable appetite for travelling everywhere by our privately-owned personal mobility vehicles.

I didn't realise that was a crisis situation. Ah well, every day a school day.

 

[ToeKnee]

The simple solution is to ban all personal cars and only have taxis on the road.......

 

[markjay]

I didn't realise that was a crisis situation. Ah well, every day a school day.

I guess it depends on were you live:

 

[markjay]

The simple solution is to ban all personal cars and only have taxis on the road.......

Said the taxi driver...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

AFAIK most of the delivery vans are still diesels, although I think Tesco are starting to use BEVs (maybe others too).

Coop have started using EV vans too.

 

[Will]

While we're talking about modern life the continued growth of online grocery shopping is interesting. Very handy for those with reduced mobility etc. but increasingly popular with younger people who just "don't have time" to go to the shops themselves and prefer to have it delivered to their front door instead. AFAIK most of the delivery vans are still diesels, although I think Tesco are starting to use BEVs (maybe others too).

Would be worth considering the amount of journeys that would otherwise be made by all of those who have their shopping delivered by just one vehicle instead.

Surely more efficient to deliver say 20x customers worth of shopping in one vehicle than typically 20x households travelling to the supermarket in their Qashqai or whatever.

I guess looking further, it’s probably more efficient to deliver from warehouses than having people maintaining a heated/lit up supermarket full of people and products etc.

Can’t see this trend changing to be honest!

 

[Noitz]

I guess it depends on were you live:

I live a rural life and this is the reason I stay clear of major cities in my car. When I travel to B'ham, Manchester or god forbid, London, I take the train.

 

[BTB 500]

Would be worth considering the amount of journeys that would otherwise be made by all of those who have their shopping delivered by just one vehicle instead.

Surely more efficient to deliver say 20x customers worth of shopping in one vehicle than typically 20x households travelling to the supermarket in their Qashqai or whatever.

Fair point, but a large chilled(?) delivery van obviously emits a lot more CO2/consumes more kWh than a smaller car so I guess it would depend on where they all lived in relation to each other and the store and how much mileage could be saved on the delivery route.

 

[markjay]

I live a rural life and this is the reason I stay clear of major cities in my car. When I travel to B'ham, Manchester or god forbid, London, I take the train.

You are very lucky.

However, 80% of the UK population live in urban areas, where traffic congestion and air quality are causing significant issues, either during rush hour (towns and villages) or all day long (major cities).

 

[JHS]

You are very lucky.

However, 80% of the UK population live in urban areas, where traffic congestion and air quality are causing significant issues, either during rush hour (towns and villages) or all day long (major cities).

They could move?

 

[Will]

Fair point, but a large chilled(?) delivery van obviously emits a lot more CO2/consumes more kWh than a smaller car so I guess it would depend on where they all lived in relation to each other and the store and how much mileage could be saved on the delivery route.

Even if it was two or three times as much CO2 or (or whichever emissions you look at!) there’s no way it’s more efficient for multiple vehicles to make lots of individual journeys to and from a supermarket (including all those cold starts etc)

Delivery vehicles will be purpose built for exactly this job - usually well insulated, and efficiency would definitely be a factor.

 

[markjay]

Fair point, but a large chilled(?) delivery van obviously emits a lot more CO2/consumes more kWh than a smaller car so I guess it would depend on where they all lived in relation to each other and the store and how much mileage could be saved on the delivery route.

I think the actual calculation is more complex than that. Ultimately, we don't have a full picture of the distribution chain. The local delivery vans possibly eliminate the need to distribute the products from the central warehouses to the local shops (using large refrigerator lorries). Then, we don't know how people would have travelled to the local shop if they didn't order online - by foot, bicycle, public transport, or private car? And, would they travel there especially, or stop at the local shop on the way back from work? Would they have purchased smaller quantities if going to the shop, hence making more journeys, than when ordering online? How do the van drivers get to work - driving a car? Etc. Again, it's not that simple to compare the CO2 footprint of one Vs the other, without having the full data.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Fair play, this time you are eschewing flying but you did fly the last time while all the time exhorting others to reduce their driving when much of it is absolutely essential. This time you are driving (and unless your electricity for that is renewably generated) there is still a CO2 component to that. Relative to car use for the daily necessities (getting to and from paid employment, doctor's appointments, shopping, etc, etc) how do you justify your trip with your assertions that everyone should drive less?

If there is only one person in the ICE car (like driving to Italy for business like I did a while back because I liked the idea or driving an old ALFA home to Italy!!)) on average you emit less carbon per person by flying.....but add another person and it swings back the other way....just...three or more and its a win for driving. The figures have got a lot closer recently....the new planes are much more efficient and can carry more people...so less CO per person.....but the current fad for thirsty heavy ICE SUVs has swing car emissions back the other way,

 

[Deleted member 55947]

You are very lucky.

However, 80% of the UK population live in urban areas, where traffic congestion and air quality are causing significant issues, either during rush hour (towns and villages) or all day long (major cities).

Do they ?

England Air Quality Index (AQI) and United Kingdom Air Pollution | IQAir

England Air Quality Index (AQI). Read the air pollution in England, United Kingdom, get real-time, historical and forecast PM2.5 and weather data with AirVisual.

www.iqair.com

 

[markjay]

Do they ?

England Air Quality Index (AQI) and United Kingdom Air Pollution | IQAir

England Air Quality Index (AQI). Read the air pollution in England, United Kingdom, get real-time, historical and forecast PM2.5 and weather data with AirVisual.

www.iqair.com

This is what our government says:

"Air pollution has a negative effect on a number of different aspects of human health. In London, 9,400 premature deaths are attributed to poor air quality and a cost of between £1.4 and £3.7 billion a year to the health service."

Air pollution and the effect on our health | London Councils

www.londoncouncils.gov.uk