The EV fact thread

[markjay]

Googling it suggests that things aren't that simple....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9324376

"There is no argument that carbon fibre is environmentally friendly and exhibits a longer life cycle. However, carbon fibre consumes almost 14 times more energy in its creation compared with steel. This significant energy-intensiveness has led to huge emissions of greenhouse gases. Therefore, the recycling process could be one of the best ways to reduce this environmental impact while meeting global demand for this material in industrial applications."

 

[ChipChop]

What of say, a carer using one to tend to the group you mention? Tax for such a vehicle shouldn't exist. Or, continue to have cities full of 3 litre diesel powered 5 seat saloons with single occupancy. Incentivising a move away from that is more appropriate.

Yep, confined to city use, the objection that it doesn't cut it in a rural setting voiced elsewhere becomes meaningless.

A perfectly valid exception.

 

[Bellow]

On the plus side, I imagine that empty Hydrogen storage tanks are easy to recycle at the end of the car's life, unlike Li-ion batteries.

If you can spare the energy to reduce 100kg steel tanks to molten. Better not to have even made them. Recycled carbon fibre? Maybe (I've heard of it being shredded and incorporated into new composites) but the cost of 95kg carbon fibre tank would make you want to keep it not destroy it! Destroying it though is a likely possibility if it fails its 3 yearly inspection. Inspection method unspecified but I can't imagine any form of NDT being possible without removal of the tank from the vehicle. More cost.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

they probably use very little of that finite resource called electricity compared to a full blown EV.

What's finite about solar and wind power?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Not a fan of Maggie's.....?

It was Wilson who saw the white hot scientific future of nuclear, and closed down half the country's coal fields.

Mags was late to the game and just took the rap, long after the end of steam trains, coal fired furnaces and homes with people sat around the living room coal fire that needed to be cleaned out every morning.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Well technically he's right.... the sun only has about five billion years of life left... there will be no wind or solar when it shuts down... so yes... thats finite!
Unfortunately that does not matter because even if we don't destroy the planet ourselves the sun's life cycle will make the planet uninhabitable in a mere 1.3 billion years.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As an impartial observer, I have to admit that the 5-Series is one of the best driving machines on the planet.

"There's only one Ultimate Driving Machine. The rest are just imitations"

The new advert from Christopher Walken for the... all electric ... BMW I5

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[markjay]

If you can spare the energy to reduce 100kg steel tanks to molten. Better not to have even made them. Recycled carbon fibre? Maybe (I've heard of it being shredded and incorporated into new composites) but the cost of 95kg carbon fibre tank would make you want to keep it not destroy it! Destroying it though is a likely possibility if it fails its 3 yearly inspection. Inspection method unspecified but I can't imagine any form of NDT being possible without removal of the tank from the vehicle. More cost.

You'll need to destroy it eventually, i.e. when the car itself is being recycled, because even setting aside any safety issues with old tanks, the simple fact is that technology is moving on and a 10 years old tank is unlikely to fit a new car.

 

[Bellow]

You'll need to destroy it eventually, i.e. when the car itself is being recycled, because even setting aside any safety issues with old tanks, the simple fact is that technology is moving on and a 10 years old tank is unlikely to fit a new car.

Technology will move on but won't obviate the difficulty of storing a gas at 700 bar. Unlike tanks for unpressurised liquid fuels which can and are shaped to utilise any available space, pressure vessels are compelled to certain geometries. If - big if - FCVs become viable, you may find that a hydrogen tank becomes universal for the aforementioned reason and the car built around a standard tank format.

 

[clk320x]

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

(Cough) Er, yes, the new Porsche Taycan charges from 8 to 80% in 16 minutes IF you're attached to a 350kwh charger.

At your home, or lamp post: no chance)

What's that noise?

That's the sound of Mk1 Taycans dropping even further in value. Which has to be a good thing.

 

[markjay]

"There's only one Ultimate Driving Machine..."

I beg to differ....:

Hyundai IONIQ 5 168kW Ultimate 77 kWh 5dr Auto [Tech] 2024 Review

Save at least £2508 on a new Hyundai IONIQ 5 168kW Ultimate 77 kWh 5dr Auto [Tech]. Check performance, specs and equipment, and view the verdict from the expert What Car? team.

www.whatcar.com

 

[clk320x]

(Cough) Er, yes, the new Porsche Taycan charges from 8 to 80% in 16 minutes IF you're attached to a 350kwh charger. At your home, or lamp post: no chance)

I mean obviously- If you’re at home why does time matter? You’ll be asleep when it’s charging.

 

[markjay]

What's finite about solar and wind power?

The Universe..... We've only got about 100 trillion years left (give or take)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I mean obviously- If you’re at home why does time matter? You’ll be asleep when it’s charging.

For sure. No-one in their right mind worries about charging times unless they're genuine 50,000 mile a year away from home types.

Just wanted to point out the small print below that charge from 8 to 80% in 16 minutes claim.

My first US Robotics modem was 56k bps (1996). In 2020 my new router was 1,000,000k bps.

Kit gets faster. "Not everyone understands this."

 

[clk320x]

No-one in their right mind worries about charging times unless they're genuine 50,000 mile a year away from home types.

or they do 800 miles at 80 mph, switching drivers midway…

 

[markjay]

For sure. No-one in their right mind worries about charging times unless they're genuine 50,000 mile a year away from home types.

Just wanted to point out the small print below that charge from 8 to 80% in 16 minutes claim.

My first US Robotics modem was 56k bps (1996). In 2020 my new router was 1,000,000k bps.

Kit gets faster. "Not everyone understands this."

Most people who do the worrying don't actually have an EV ...

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The Universe..... We've only got about 100 trillion years left (give or take)

True, but do the EV sceptics realise that

173,000 terawatts (trillions of watts) of solar energy strikes the Earth continuously.

That's more than 10,000 times the world's total energy use.

That energy being completely renewable — for the lifetime of the sun.

Shining brightly

Vast amounts of solar energy radiate to the Earth constantly, but tapping that energy cost-effectively remains a challenge.

news.mit.edu

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Most people who do the worrying don't actually have an EV ...

It's the dialectic that counts.

 

[190]

Hydrogen is virtually unstoreable - the notion of it being an energy reservoir for surplus electricity generation is a complete non-starter.

Agreed. It's certainly extremely difficult and expensive to store making it grossly uneconomic for widespread distribution and use.


I've actually worked with hydrogen storage and distribution.

It was customary to provide hydrogen and other gases in research laboratories using bottles immediately adjacent to the area of need. When we built a new lab complex it was decided to store all bottled gases centrally and distribute via a network of copper pipes. Everything worked fine except for the hydrogen. In spite of careful construction and leak testing, using only brazed joints rather than soft solder, the stuff leaked and emptied the bottles in short order and it's not cheap at £100 a bottle. I'm sure it's not impossible to distribute Hydrogen leak free but it assuredly is not easy or cheap. Safety concern for not knowing where it was leaking caused us to give in and go back to local bottles.

When I hear some half wit politician talk about the future of hydrogen and say we already have the infrastructure and could distribute it to homes through existing natural gas pipe work I just laugh. It's hard to pin down a figure but our natural gas distribution network already loses approx. 5% of gas through leaks. If you put Hydrogen in there the leaks would increase dramatically to the extent that it was unsafe and grossly uneconomic.

Yes it's been possible to produce a hydrogen powered car that exhausts only water. All very impressive but it can't be done at a price that will sell and make a profit and that's before we talk about refuelling infrastructure. For the car manufacturers that have done it, I think well done knowing how difficult it must be. But really it's a just a vanity project to show off their engineering capabilities.