• The Forums are now open to new registrations, adverts are also being de-tuned.

The EV fact thread

Just a observation and not 100 % EV related.

A fair proportion of my deliveries are to Chinese people (yes I can tell the difference between Chinese names and other nations,)

Stay with me

A fair proportion of them are Tesla owners

But I've never once delivered to a Chinese person with a MG or other cheapo Chinese EV

Do they know something we don't ????

Just a curio :dk:
 
I agree. I just object to being told that there isn't any inconvenience at all!

Well, both claims can be true, under some circumstances.

On one hand, having to stop halfway through your journey is less convenient than not having to stop at all, and stopping for charging will likely take longer than stopping for fuel.

On the other hand, if your car is on the drive, and you are planing a round trip tomorrow morning that is well below the car's range, then going outside briefly to plug-in the cable for an overnight charge is more convenient than driving to your local petrol station and refueling.

EDIT: Just saw PXW's post.
 
Just a observation and not 100 % EV related.

A fair proportion of my deliveries are to Chinese people (yes I can tell the difference between Chinese names and other nations,)

Stay with me

A fair proportion of them are Tesla owners

But I've never once delivered to a Chinese person with a MG or other cheapo Chinese EV

Do they know something we don't ????

Just a curio :dk:

They might. Or perhaps the Chinese people living abroad are generally wealthy?
 
On the subject of inconvenience I did a reasonable ICE trip today - will post some info below. One interesting thing though was that I heard sales from three different car manufacturers being repeatedly advertised on the radio (Volvo, Vauxhall, and I can't remember the other). These were only for 'in stock' cars and EVs were specifically mentioned. General sales for each brand, not particular dealers or chains.

I was mostly on the motorways (M54, M6, M40, M40, M25 then back again) and did actually get overtaken by a few EVs this time. One of them doesn't really count as it stormed past (I was doing an indicated 75, so a bit less really) then a few miles later it was sitting in the middle lane at about 60 :doh: It was an ID Buzz btw - first one of these I've come across on the road. Another thing was the number of EVs with empty roof bars on them - the last thing you'd want at motorway speed I'd have thought. Also saw a Tesla Model 3 with a gigantic roof box on top - hope they take that off when not using it :D

Anyway here's the trip data (normal caveats about data coming from a vehicle):

1708195166900.png

I didn't fill up beforehand - it last had fuel added about a week ago, and was on 65% when I left. The estimated range then was 324 miles but I was confident this would go up significantly on a long run. I didn't stop anywhere for fuel, drove 330 miles, and got home with 14% remaining (estimated range of 93 miles). So it doesn't need refuelling yet - the nearest town is 6 miles away and we go past a Shell and a Morrisons on the way to get groceries, so I'll probably fill up next time we do that. This isn't a super-sleek diesel coupe btw - it's a 255 bhp petrol estate that did the run home with a chest of drawers in the back.

Mostly motorway mileage on cruise control ... some 40-60 limits for congestion and/or roadworks both ways (on M25, M42 and M6). Some local A and B road miles at each end too, plus parking etc. of course.

Yes I drove for 6.25 hours. But obviously this wasn't all in one go - I went to two locations to meet with family, so had a break at each of these. The longest single leg was 162 miles which is fine - I didn't feel the need to make any additional stops for coffee / doughnuts / toilet / etc. If I'd been in an EV capable of carrying a chest of drawers I'm pretty sure I'd have needed to stop somewhere to recharge, even if it had been on 100% to start with. Granny charging wouldn't have been possible at either of the places I went to (a care home and an empty property), but I wasn't at either for long enough to make much difference anyway (under an hour at each).

Clearly stopping for a charge wouldn't have been the end of the world, but it would definitely have made the trip less convenient (it wasn't the case that I needed to fill up my ICE before/during/after anyway, or stop for any other reason). Trips like this are reasonably common for me as my mum has been in a care home for three years now, and as executor I've been responsible for emptying and selling my late dad's house which is not far away. Total fuel cost for today was around £47 so an EV would very likely have been cheaper with a 100% home charge beforehand. But TBH getting home earlier was more important to me today than saving a few pounds.

I totally get that other peoples' priorities and usage patterns are different, and EVs work well for them. But for me at the moment, not so much. In future, who knows!

Happy and safe driving, whatever your choice :) :thumb:
 
On the subject of inconvenience I did a reasonable ICE trip today - will post some info below. One interesting thing though was that I heard sales from three different car manufacturers being repeatedly advertised on the radio (Volvo, Vauxhall, and I can't remember the other). These were only for 'in stock' cars and EVs were specifically mentioned. General sales for each brand, not particular dealers or chains.

I was mostly on the motorways (M54, M6, M40, M40, M25 then back again) and did actually get overtaken by a few EVs this time. One of them doesn't really count as it stormed past (I was doing an indicated 75, so a bit less really) then a few miles later it was sitting in the middle lane at about 60 :doh: It was an ID Buzz btw - first one of these I've come across on the road. Another thing was the number of EVs with empty roof bars on them - the last thing you'd want at motorway speed I'd have thought. Also saw a Tesla Model 3 with a gigantic roof box on top - hope they take that off when not using it :D

Anyway here's the trip data (normal caveats about data coming from a vehicle):

View attachment 153385

I didn't fill up beforehand - it last had fuel added about a week ago, and was on 65% when I left. The estimated range then was 324 miles but I was confident this would go up significantly on a long run. I didn't stop anywhere for fuel, drove 330 miles, and got home with 14% remaining (estimated range of 93 miles). So it doesn't need refuelling yet - the nearest town is 6 miles away and we go past a Shell and a Morrisons on the way to get groceries, so I'll probably fill up next time we do that. This isn't a super-sleek diesel coupe btw - it's a 255 bhp petrol estate that did the run home with a chest of drawers in the back.

Mostly motorway mileage on cruise control ... some 40-60 limits for congestion and/or roadworks both ways (on M25, M42 and M6). Some local A and B road miles at each end too, plus parking etc. of course.

Yes I drove for 6.25 hours. But obviously this wasn't all in one go - I went to two locations to meet with family, so had a break at each of these. The longest single leg was 162 miles which is fine - I didn't feel the need to make any additional stops for coffee / doughnuts / toilet / etc. If I'd been in an EV capable of carrying a chest of drawers I'm pretty sure I'd have needed to stop somewhere to recharge, even if it had been on 100% to start with. Granny charging wouldn't have been possible at either of the places I went to (a care home and an empty property), but I wasn't at either for long enough to make much difference anyway (under an hour at each).

Clearly stopping for a charge wouldn't have been the end of the world, but it would definitely have made the trip less convenient (it wasn't the case that I needed to fill up my ICE before/during/after anyway, or stop for any other reason). Trips like this are reasonably common for me as my mum has been in a care home for three years now, and as executor I've been responsible for emptying and selling my late dad's house which is not far away. Total fuel cost for today was around £47 so an EV would very likely have been cheaper with a 100% home charge beforehand. But TBH getting home earlier was more important to me today than saving a few pounds.

I totally get that other peoples' priorities and usage patterns are different, and EVs work well for them. But for me at the moment, not so much. In future, who knows!

Happy and safe driving, whatever your choice :) :thumb:


Thank you for the write-up and for posting the stats.

The good news is that the day when you can comfortably make a 330 mile journey in an EV at motorway speeds without stopping isn't that far away now.
 
Last edited:
With all these alleged plus points it genuinely makes you wonder why the masses have seemingly turned their backs on them.
Just saying.
It does surprise me that so many people for whom they could be an excellent first (or more likely second) car just dismiss the possibility out of hand because they are too expensive (check the one yr old market) or because they will not do 500 miles without stopping.
A family with more than one car, with off road parking / charging, rural (ie more dependent on a car for local journeys) ought to be at least taking a good look at an EV option for one car for all the sub 200 mile journeys. Houses with solar panels just add to the appeal.
 
Just a observation and not 100 % EV related.

A fair proportion of my deliveries are to Chinese people (yes I can tell the difference between Chinese names and other nations,)

Stay with me

A fair proportion of them are Tesla owners

But I've never once delivered to a Chinese person with a MG or other cheapo Chinese EV

Do they know something we don't ????

Just a curio :dk:
Just Google MV EV reliability..... that will tell you most off what you need to know. They serm to be having some quite serious issues on the forums. At least the engineering matches the grim interior quality.......which is nice. :)
There have even been quite a few cases of rust at just a few months old!
 
Last edited:
Just Google MV EV reliability..... that will tell you most off what you need to know. They serm to be having some quite serious issues on the forums. At least the engineering matches the grim interior quality.......which is nice. :)
There have even been quite a few cases of rust at just a few months old!

Been there done that :)

Briefly considered one for the Wife and spent 5 minutes researching the forums and then decided against it and ended up buying our third Kia.

The general consensus is:

The 7 year warranty ain't worth a w@nk
Half the problems the dealers haven't got a clue how to fix
The cars are a collection of badly made sensors on badly made plastic mounts that if they go warranty repairs are rejected as classed accident damage !
Even if they do identify the issue (such as passenger occupancy sensor) they don't have the parts to fix it.
All warranty claims go to "China" and China says no :)
 
Just a observation and not 100 % EV related.

A fair proportion of my deliveries are to Chinese people (yes I can tell the difference between Chinese names and other nations,)

Stay with me

A fair proportion of them are Tesla owners

But I've never once delivered to a Chinese person with a MG or other cheapo Chinese EV

Do they know something we don't ????

Just a curio :dk:
You could just search for 'Tofu Dregs' videos on youtube to see how Chinese people are being ripped off by substandard manufacturing at home , maybe they do not trust their own stuff.
 
The Hertz saga rolls on and is bad news for Polestar.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
The Hertz saga rolls on and is bad news for Polestar.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.



"Hertz pauses plans to buy electric vehicles from Polestar this year

Decision by car rental group comes as resale value of EVs has collapsed

Peter Campbell in London FEBRUARY 5 2024

Hertz has paused plans to buy tens of thousands of battery-driven cars from Polestar this year, the head of the electric vehicle brand said, after a collapse in resale values last year caused the rental giant to taper its electric ambitions.

In 2022, Hertz agreed to buy 65,000 Polestar cars over five years in a deal likely worth $3bn as part of its ambition for EVs to make up a quarter of its rental fleet by the end of 2024. It also struck a deal to buy 100,000 Tesla cars.

But late last year, following a collapse in the resale value of EVs and citing higher repair costs than expected, Hertz said it would sell some of the Tesla cars it purchased and that it would not meet the 25 per cent EV target. It did not comment on the state of its relationship with Polestar at the time.

Polestar’s chief executive Thomas Ingenlath told the Financial Times that he had been contacted by Hertz’s chief executive Stephen Scherr last autumn to ask whether he could pause their agreement to buy a certain number of EVs throughout 2024. Between 2022 and 2023, Polestar sold about 13,000 battery-run cars to the group.

Some car rental groups operate a “buyback” model, where the manufacturer agrees to repurchase the vehicle at a set price. Hertz, however, largely operates an “at risk” model where it owns the vehicles outright, exposing it if the vehicles it holds depreciate significantly.

Polestar agreed to waive Hertz’s requirement to buy its allocated number of cars this year, in return for the rental group agreeing not to sell its current Polestar vehicles early or too cheaply, Ingenlath said.

The two companies agreed that Hertz “keep the cars longer than a year, we work with them, and we have the right to first refusal whenever they want to take them out of the fleet”, he said.

Hertz, which reports earnings on Tuesday, declined to comment.

There is a “clear intention” to restart large-scale sales to Hertz in the future, but the two companies would “have to review at the time” whether sales restart in earnest in 2025, Ingenlath said.

Hertz’s 2022 deal was seen as a sign that EVs were on the cusp of mainstream appeal, something that gives the rental group’s latest criticism of the vehicles added weight. The group filed for bankruptcy in 2020 after a collapse in the value of its fleet and when all travel halted in the early months of the pandemic.

EV sales growth has slowed around the world, as mass market consumers display more scepticism about the technology and higher prices than had been expected.

The slowdown has seen carmakers delaying investment plans, and Renault canning a stock market listing of its EV unit, partly citing weak demand.

Polestar last year sold about 54,000 cars worldwide, although it remains heavily lossmaking.

Last week, Volvo Cars said it would sell its 48 per cent stake in Polestar to Geely, and would not inject any more funding into the brand. Polestar is seeking about $1.3bn of fresh funding."

Source: The Financial Times
 
It does highlight the issue with knowingly intentionally taking a risk on the future value of a product with unknown market history, which is effectively what Hertz did.

Personally, I would only recommend getting a new EV on a lease (business or personal), that takes into account estimated depreciation - i.e. let the finance provider take the risk regarding future value, calculating risk is their job.

The obvious issue is that no one knows by how much prices of new EVs will fall in future. If manufacturing cost do go down over the next few years, as is often the case with new tech, then second hand prices will clearly suffer. I believe it's too much of a risk for a private owner to take on what is typically the second most valuable asset the average consumer will ever own.

If leasing a new EV isn't for you, then buying a second hand EV is the safer option here - the bulk of the depreciation has already been incurred by the first owner, and the risk is now much lower as you can only lose that much in a worst-case scenario.
 
Last edited:
On the other hand, if your car is on the drive, and you are planing a round trip tomorrow morning that is well below the car's range, then going outside briefly to plug-in the cable for an overnight charge is more convenient than driving to your local petrol station and refueling.
Long road trip the next day and never a thought to refuel for it on the way home from the last outing?
 
Long road trip the next day and never a thought to refuel for it on the way home from the last outing?
No that takes too much planning, we all know planning is only for EV drivers…. ;)
 
Long road trip the next day and never a thought to refuel for it on the way home from the last outing?

OK, but this will still be classified as less convenient than simply driving straight home and skipping the trip to the petrol station altogether - as my original post suggested, there are some circumstances where refueling is more convenient, and there are also some circumstances where charging is the more convenient of the two.

Personally, I charge my car on the lamppost in front of my house, where it's parked overnight, and have never needed so far to charge it halfway through a journey (I have never done a 250-300miles journey in this car), and so for me - and for anyone else in my circumstances - simply plugging-in the car where it's parked for the night, as oppsed to driving to a petrol station, is considerably more convenient.

But granted, if you regularly drive long distances beyond your car's range, then stopping at a petrol station will be more convenient than charging along the route.
 
OK, but this will still be classified as less convenient than simply driving straight home and skipping the trip to the petrol station altogether - as my original post suggested, there are some circumstances where refueling is more convenient, and there are also some circumstances where charging is the more convenient of the two.
Five minutes and it's done. Fuel in. paid for - go.
Meanwhile, the guy home charging his EV is parking it next to the wall box/13A socket (hope no one else's car was in the way), hooking up his cable, programming his charging app - then has the rest of the evening monitoring that it's all going to plan.
 
hooking up his cable, programming his charging app - then has the rest of the evening monitoring that it's all going to plan.
It’s clear you’ve never driven an EV from this post. 😂🤦‍♂️
 
Five minutes and it's done. Fuel in. paid for - go.
Meanwhile, the guy home charging his EV is parking it next to the wall box/13A socket (hope no one else's car was in the way), hooking up his cable, programming his charging app - then has the rest of the evening monitoring that it's all going to plan.

As someone who has done both, many many times over - No. It's considerably quicker and more convenient to plug it in where it's parked.... considerably.

This is not to say that driving to a petrol station is a chore, but it is simply.... less convenient.

As for time? Plugging it in, I estimate two minutes tops. Driving to the nearest petrol station, filling up, paying, driving back - between 15 and 20 minutes overall, in my case. Of course if you happen to live right next door to a petrol station, it will be quicker.
 
This is not to say that driving to a petrol station is a chore, but it is simply.... less convenient.

As for time? Plugging it in, I estimate two minutes tops. Driving to the nearest petrol station, filling up, paying, driving back - between 15 and 20 minutes overall, in my case. Of course if you happen to live right next door to a petrol station, it will be quicker.
Once more, the organised motorist doesn't drive to a filling station they turn in to one they are passing on the way home.
A separate dedicated trip to a filling station is a failure of organisation - of the lame.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom