The EV fact thread

[markjay]

The TeslaFi is a third party app that has permission to access all the data from your Tesla via an API.
It has multiple screens that give you numerous data about your car including battery health, charge stats, software updates etc.
There are other apps that also do similar things...

ABRP and TRONITY, for example.

And, some apps use Bluetooth dongle to communicate directly with the car, saving the bandwidth usage on the car's 4g/5g modem.

 

[markjay]

I'd been looking for a smart plug with the capacity of over 2400 watts to turn on car charging with my phone when the sun shines.
I have now found one under the guise of a 'monitoring socket' with the capacity I need, will switch remotely and monitor consumption.
Might give this a try.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0CGC6235V/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=8b2b1aa41b4b0be6a01bb6ce574e5aed&hsa_cr_id=0&qid=1708411762&sr=1-2-e0fa1fdd-d857-4087-adda-5bd576b25987&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_1_title&pd_rd_w=eKx9t&content-id=amzn1.sym.25f7c301-a223-4ff8-91c9-accfeab9fda8%3Aamzn1.sym.25f7c301-a223-4ff8-91c9-accfeab9fda8&pf_rd_p=25f7c301-a223-4ff8-91c9-accfeab9fda8&pf_rd_r=CKW7XQQE9KF9NVN6PN48&pd_rd_wg=Q1KkH&pd_rd_r=aebbf4d0-7166-4e93-b865-3d67b2a8aec7&th=1

Can you not simply start and stop the charging from your phone using the car's app? I.e., without needing the monitoring plug adapter?

 

[markjay]

As this an EV thread I'm not sure we would want to look at the energy losses in fuel for an ICE vehicle as it makes its way half way around the world, through various processes, multiple transport links, etc.....
But I'm quite sure the conversion from Norfolk sunshine to actual EV motion will be just a smidge more efficient....

I think the issue that BTB 500 initially raised was related to how I did the per-mile cost calculation for my EV.

He's point was that with ICE car, brim-to-brim will show you exactly how much the journey was costing you, and the cost-per-mile will be accurate (within the limits of the accuracy of the car's odometer, or the GPS if measuring via SatNav app).

With EV, I based my calculations on information displayed on the car's dash, and BTB 500's point was that the actual amount of money that I would be paying per journey is higher than the direct cost of the kWh that went into the battery.

Additionally, BTB 500 suggested that cabin pre-heating energy costs should be included in the journey costs, again because in the case of an ICE car the energy for replenishing the 12v battery would come out of the fuel tank.

 

[Mactech]

Can you not simply start and stop the charging from your phone using the car's app? I.e., without needing the monitoring plug adapter?

No, whilst I can monitor almost everything else on the car and use the app to pre-heat etc, there is no provision to stop and start charging. I guess the i3 is what we now call a 'legacy' product, dating back 10 years....or it was assumed that people would be using 'smart' wall boxes with that facility built in.

 

[markjay]

No, whilst I can monitor almost everything else on the car and use the app to pre-heat etc, there is no provision to stop and start charging. I guess the i3 is what we now call a 'legacy' product, dating back 10 years....or it was assumed that people would be using 'smart' wall boxes with that facility built in.

Understood. I imagine that most modern EVs will have something like this:

 

[BTB 500]

The TeslaFi is a third party app that has permission to access all the data from your Tesla via an API.
It has multiple screens that give you numerous data about your car including battery health, charge stats, software updates etc.
There are other apps that also do similar things.
There is also a comprehensive service & diagnostic menu within the Tesla car itself - that technicians (and owners) can access to interrogate all the systems on the car and do very comprehensive self diagnostic checks - with a report that you can pass on to Tesla service if there is a problem detected.
Whatever you say about Tesla - it’s refreshing for a car owner to have so much free access to diagnostic data & information on their own vehicle - rather than the stonewalling you get from legacy automakers and the costs associated with getting faults diagnosed and then repaired!
This is coming from somebody that worked for a company that supplied the dealer diagnostic tools to many leading auto manufacturers for 15 years of my automotive working life!
Cheers
Steve

That's interesting, thanks. I had assumed this was some sort of official tool for owners supplied by Tesla (who I have nothing against btw - cars like the Model 3 in particular are pretty impressive). I spent my entire career working in IT so am looking at it from that perspective

To provide info. on charging efficiency the car would have to receive and log data on the raw power taken from the grid by every charger or wall box it gets connected to. I can see that being technically possible with Tesla products, but unlikely with other types of public charger (or non-Tesla wallboxes) ... out of interest have you ever used any of those, and if so what did the app show for those charges?

Also curious how far back you can go in the app - presumably the car can't retain all data indefinitely, unless it uses Cloud storage perhaps?

 

[tode]

An interesting report . . . TIMES CLICKY

 

[BTB 500]

As this an EV thread I'm not sure we would want to look at the energy losses in fuel for an ICE vehicle as it makes its way half way around the world, through various processes, multiple transport links, etc.....
But I'm quite sure the conversion from Norfolk sunshine to actual EV motion will be just a smidge more efficient....

Of course. And as I said, if you're charging for free then losses are irrelevant from a cost POV. But for those who aren't it would be useful to know the scale of this (which is why ADAC specifically test for it and include it in their car reviews).

I'm also not disputing that EVs are (very likely) greener in terms of power usage when driving, and often cheaper to run. I'd just like the costs quoted to be complete, accurate and transparent!

 

[BTB 500]

The heat will be residual, though the circulation will use electricity from the 12v battery (=fuel)

Indeed. But this isn't pre-heating of course, and would be very rarely used by most owners. We only used it in winter when we were out at dog training till 11PM or so twice a week and had young kids sleeping in the van - the residual heating kept them warm for a while. After that they just had to wrap up

As I'm sure you know this heating only runs for a certain length of time - till the coolant temperature drops below a certain point, or the battery voltage reaches a limit.

 

[BTB 500]

An interesting report . . . TIMES CLICKY

Subscription only article?

 

[BTB 500]

I think the issue that BTB 500 initially raised was related to how I did the per-mile cost calculation for my EV.

It's a general point rather than aimed particularly at any individuals here. Most people honestly believe the power they've used from the battery while driving (as reported by the car) is the actual cost. It's not really in the EV industry's interests to publicise the fact that this isn't the whole picture. As mentioned I recently saw a What Car comparison of EV vs ICE running costs and even that was based solely on kWh used while driving as displayed by the cars used.

 

[BTB 500]

Huge coincidence but a thread here about retro-fitting a Webasto pre-heater into an ICE W213 started yesterday!

W213. Want to install webasto. Can anyone help? | Electronics and Audio

No stranger to spanners. Struggling to find a wiring diagram and part numbers. Can see plenty of Mercedes ‘stationary heater’ key fobs online for sale though. Would be for my W213. E400d. Living in a cold corner of Scotland. It’s nice to have a warm car to get into. A bit spoiled if I am...

forums.mbclub.co.uk

 

[markjay]

It's a general point rather than aimed particularly at any individuals here. Most people honestly believe the power they've used from the battery while driving (as reported by the car) is the actual cost. It's not really in the EV industry's interests to publicise the fact that this isn't the whole picture. As mentioned I recently saw a What Car comparison of EV vs ICE running costs and even that was based solely on kWh used while driving as displayed by the cars used.

It will be difficult for me to do a more accurate calculation. I Suppose could charge the battery to 100%, take a trip, then charge it to 100% again and see how much I paid. Or maybe do the same with 80%. We'll see....

 

[Steveml63]

That's interesting, thanks. I had assumed this was some sort of official tool for owners supplied by Tesla (who I have nothing against btw - cars like the Model 3 in particular are pretty impressive). I spent my entire career working in IT so am looking at it from that perspective

To provide info. on charging efficiency the car would have to receive and log data on the raw power taken from the grid by every charger or wall box it gets connected to. I can see that being technically possible with Tesla products, but unlikely with other types of public charger (or non-Tesla wallboxes) ... out of interest have you ever used any of those, and if so what did the app show for those charges?

Also curious how far back you can go in the app - presumably the car can't retain all data indefinitely, unless it uses Cloud storage perhaps?

I have data from when I bought the car - as I already knew about the app before I bought it.
I assume that if you buy a 2nd hand Tesla and install the app - you will only get data from the date that you authorised the app to use the Tesla API.
I do occasionally connect the car to other types of public charger and they do a “handshake” with the car before charging - so you actually get a lot of data from these as well.

 

[Bellow]

Tax hike for pick-ups reversed by UK government | Autocar

HMRC makes U-turn on changes to benefit-in-kind rules after criticism from motor industry

www.autocar.co.uk

Wonder what they will be replaced by to keep the BIK bodge going? Let me guess....

And back again.....

Tax hike for pick-ups reversed by UK government | Autocar

HMRC makes U-turn on changes to benefit-in-kind rules after criticism from motor industry

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[ALFAitalia]

Good....I drive two for work!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The trip computer in an EV is displaying how much energy was consumed during the journey, ie its consumption rate. It’s purpose is not for calculating cost per mile.

There are many indirect costs associated with owning and driving a car which all contribute to the cost per mile calculation but are not conaumption in the journey.

VED, Insuramce, finance costs, tyre replacements, servicing, repairs, etc and for any EV you can add cost to charge, in the same way that we add cost to refill on ICE.

Something about EV’s seems to encourage discussion to get fixated on specific points. What matters most is the total, whether that’s cost, environmental impact, etc.

 

[neilrr]

Are EVs too heavy to be stopped safely by roadside guardrails?

Results from crash testing in the US have raised concerns that electric vehicles may be too heavy to be stopped safely by guardrails on roads.

www.euronews.com

 

[PXW]

Are EVs too heavy to be stopped safely by roadside guardrails?

Results from crash testing in the US have raised concerns that electric vehicles may be too heavy to be stopped safely by guardrails on roads.

www.euronews.com

Another FUD article. EVs may be a bit heavier than their ICE equivalent (or may not be - check out the kerb weight of Tesla Model 3 v C class or BMW 3 series larger diesel engines vehicles). But they are still lighter than the mega SUVs and pick-ups that populate US roads (and increasingly ours), still lighter than many loaded light goods vehicles, minibuses, HGVs, large passenger vehicles etc etc.

If we want to campaign for lighter vehicles then fine - and vehicle weight has definitely increased over the years - but it’s not an EV specific issue.

 

[SmartAmg]

Another FUD article. EVs may be a bit heavier than their ICE equivalent (or may not be - check out the kerb weight of Tesla Model 3 v C class or BMW 3 series larger diesel engines vehicles). But they are still lighter than the mega SUVs and pick-ups that populate US roads (and increasingly ours), still lighter than many loaded light goods vehicles, minibuses, HGVs, large passenger vehicles etc etc.

If we want to campaign for lighter vehicles then fine - and vehicle weight has definitely increased over the years - but it’s not an EV specific issue.

Totally agree, it just another Bullsh1t, EV report.