The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

I wonder what the range of an ICE vehicle in this scenario would be?

On my E55, 22 years ago, that routine school run distance was 9.5mpg in winter. (Other mpg's are available)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Nobody else? Just @Bellow with his Smart, and even though it was a live affair which lasted 14 years that ended close to 5 years ago. You can add me to the long list of one.
I must admit I am a little confused because there are many vehement comments in this thread - and others - about the imperative for new small lightweight EV city cars, but I am wondering why?
If those people making such comments haven’t buying such cars with ICE propulsion whilst they were abundant both new and used, then why would they buy one if it was an EV?
If we aren’t going to buy them, then who? People who buy ICE city cars probably will, but it’s a small and less-profitable part of the market so why would they be a businesses priority?

Exactly. The engineering to produce a Golf profitably is phenomenal. It's extraordinary what they achieve.

We could all switch to running 60mpg superminis with just £7.5k. But we won't, and the manufacturers would be aghast if we did.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I’ve just got home and my stopwatch shows it took me just over 2 seconds to get the cable off the wall and plug it in to the car.
Looks like even plugging in will be a thing of the past eventually…

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But who wants 300+ miles of range in their tank every time they drive off in the morning?

Well, unless it's cheaper than petrol. Is your electricity cheaper than petrol ?

 

[Flyinspanner]

Just driving an EV for the first time in my life! (Bar a high lift when I was 19/20 back on the airport apron!)

Hired a Fiat 500 here in Palma - and it’s an EV - I find it nippy, but I don’t find the range is brilliant, and one of the hotel chargers wasn’t working (only realised in the AM when I saw it hadn’t charged overnight.
Used 60% of charge in 2 days of very short journeys - little mileage, basically run into town to go sightseeing, and a run to the supermarket

(No decent handover from Avis on how to charge, despite saying I’d never used one and asking if they had an ICE - to which they offered one at over double the cost!!!!!)

It certainly accelerates well and is quiet! …..still not convinced

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just driving an EV for the first time in my life! (Bar a high lift when I was 19/20 back on the airport apron!)

Hired a Fiat 500 here in Palma - and it’s an EV - I find it nippy, but I don’t find the range is brilliant, and one of the hotel chargers wasn’t working (only realised in the AM when I saw it hadn’t charged overnight.
Used 60% of charge in 2 days of very short journeys - little mileage, basically run into town to go sightseeing, and a run to the supermarket

(No decent handover from Avis on how to charge, despite saying I’d never used one and asking if they had an ICE - to which they offered one at over double the cost!!!!!)

It certainly accelerates well and is quiet! …..still not convinced

What's the charger availability like at the supermarket or in town?

Avis, and Hertz are rubbish at tech handovers. You can see punters scrabbling in the car parks to work out "how the heck" with EV's, PHEV's, and non-CarPlay ICE. It's going to backfire on the rental firms.

 

[Dryce]

The best selling EVs are nearly equivalent or possibly even lighter than their direct ICE equivalents (especially the high volume Tesla Model 3 & Y, for instance)

Tesla compare the model 3 with the 3 Series. Petrol 3-Series starts at 1525kg. Tesla model 3 starts at 1777Kg.

That's a 250kg difference for the short range RWD version. The long range version is 313kg heavier.

Tesla figures quoted US style without driver.

BMW weight quoted EU style with driver of 65kg and 7 kg luggage.

So .... that would make the equivalent figure of the BMW 1453kg. That would make the two Tesla numbers 323kg and 386kg heavier.

(I have seen slightly lower figures for the BMW)

323kg is 22% of the BMW weight. 386kg is 26% of the BMW weight.

The SUV style EVs from other manufacturers can be asbsurdly heavy. And it is also likely that with fewer diesels being purchased the average ICE weight is dropping a bit. I suspect 20% to 35% range is not unreasonable.

 

[BTB 500]

Now I have my Meross smart plug, I've got to navigate all the way to the app on my phone and tap a button. Whenever the sun comes out I can turn on the charger.
Takes almost 4 seconds, but I hope to reduce that as I become use to it. The car sits happily in the garage with it's power cord plugged in, ready to go whenever I want

You just need the weather app on your phone to tell the socket switching one when it's going to be sunny

 

[BTB 500]

I’ve just got home and my stopwatch shows it took me just over 2 seconds to get the cable off the wall and plug it in to the car.

Nearly as quick as putting a fuel nozzle in an ICE vehicle then

 

[Bellow]

If I had a bulk LPG tank at home and an appropriate pump, I could refuel at home. It'd take mere minutes to achieve 'full charge'.
If home re-fuelling/charging is so important - LPG for the win!

 

[Mactech]

You just need the weather app on your phone to tell the socket switching one when it's going to be sunny

My own observation through the window is more accurate than any weather app, I think I'll do that bit the old fashioned way...

 

[Bellow]

I've quadrupled my mpg. It is so easy. All I do is consider only the fuel energy value that reaches the drive wheels to propel the vehicle. All the other energy I just disregard.

 

[Mactech]

If I had a bulk LPG tank at home and an appropriate pump, I could refuel at home. It'd take mere minutes to achieve 'full charge'.
If home re-fuelling/charging is so important - LPG for the win!

We won't mention the cost of that installation then.....

 

[Bellow]

We won't mention the cost of that installation then.....

Of course not!
That said, if it was already there for domestic heating....

 

[Mactech]

Of course not!
That said, if it was already there for domestic heating....

...and I'd be draining the contents of my heating oil tank in to the diesel car.....

 

[Steveml63]

Tesla compare the model 3 with the 3 Series. Petrol 3-Series starts at 1525kg. Tesla model 3 starts at 1777Kg.

That's a 250kg difference for the short range RWD version. The long range version is 313kg heavier.

Tesla figures quoted US style without driver.

BMW weight quoted EU style with driver of 65kg and 7 kg luggage.

So .... that would make the equivalent figure of the BMW 1453kg. That would make the two Tesla numbers 323kg and 386kg heavier.

(I have seen slightly lower figures for the BMW)

323kg is 22% of the BMW weight. 386kg is 26% of the BMW weight.

The SUV style EVs from other manufacturers can be asbsurdly heavy. And it is also likely that with fewer diesels being purchased the average ICE weight is dropping a bit. I suspect 20% to 35% range is not unreasonable.

You fell into my trap!
A Tesla Model 3 performance has “similar” performance to a BMW M3 Performance - now what is the weight difference?

In any case - the bigger issue in that article is not really about EV weights - crash barriers are not just designed to stop or minimise the affect of cars or SUVs hitting them - whatever power source the vehicles have.
Crash barriers are designed to be hit by all vehicles that use the roads - including 40 ton trucks!
That article specifically stated that crash barriers have an upper weight limit of 5000lb - which is utter bolloxx

 

[SmartAmg]

Nearly as quick as putting a fuel nozzle in an ICE vehicle then

True, but then you have to stand there, possibly cold, blowing a gale, take the nozzle out, then pay. So not as quick then.

 

[BTB 500]

My own observation through the window is more accurate than any weather app, I think I'll do that bit the old fashioned way...

Yep you'd want to invert the functionality i.e. have it turn charging off when the weather forecast said sun

 

[Dryce]

In any case - the bigger issue in that article is not really about EV weights - crash barriers are not just designed to stop or minimise the affect of cars or SUVs hitting them - whatever power source the vehicles have.

The bigger issue is about accident lethality.

Go back a couple of decades and there were concerns about SUVs being heavier than 'ordinary cars' and that the occupants of the lighter car were more likely to be injured in a collision with a SUV.

The laws of physics haven't changed. If EVs are generally heavier they'll be more dangerous in general to anything that they hit. Can't get away from that.

 

[ALFAitalia]

But since there are loads of people driving the ugly things you could say that overall the roads are safer for drivers!.....as you are around 50% more like to escape from a crash in your heavy SUV either alive or without serious injury than if you are driving a saloon and having the same accident. And even though there are more SUVs than ever the general trend in the numbers of fatalities on UK roads is still generally going down......thats fatalities per billion miles travelled....rather than total figures each year....the only fair way of doing it. Compared to the 80s we are at about 25% of those figures.

 

[Dryce]

. And even though there are more SUVs than ever the general trend in the numbers of fatalities on UK roads is still generally going down......thats fatalities per billion miles travelled....rather than total figures each year....the only fair way of doing it. Compared to the 80s we are at about 25% of those figures.

The situation with the 80s isn't valid - the cars were significantly less safe in terms of structure and features like ABS and rear seatbelt laws were not implemented.

AIUI the numbers in the UK recently have been increasing.

It's obscured by the number of pedestrian deaths which have decreased - which suggests within the overall numbers that the numbers killed or seriously injured in cars is going up.