The EV fact thread

[Petrol Pete]

I might have dreamt this . Was there not a car (in the 1980's ??) that if the front seat passenger in a right hand drive model stamped on the footwell the brakes came on ?? Something to do with RHD cars being poorly adapated.

I am inclined to say Skoda ? I'm off out soon but it's stuck in my head so I might Google it later.

Or it could be complete Boll0k$

 

[SmartAmg]

In this respect, there's no difference in essence between EV and ICE - in either case the transmission transfer to Neutral is electronic, not mechanical, and if the computer decides that you can't put the car in Neutral, then you can't put the car in Neutral... end of.

Also, the same applies to turning off the car (EV) or switching off the ignition (ICE) - these days the systems are both electronic, nor mechanical and not even electric- i.e. you are not 'cutting off' electricity to the engine, like with the ignition switches of old. Again, if the computer decides that it's not having it - then you're effed....

So basically if "computer says no" your F***** No matter what your Driving.

 

[SmartAmg]

I might have dreamt this . Was there not a car (in the 1980's ??) that if the front seat passenger in a right hand drive model stamped on the footwell the brakes came on ?? Something to do with RHD cars being poorly adapated.

I am inclined to say Skoda ? I'm off out soon but it's stuck in my head so I might Google it later.

Or it could be complete Boll0k$

That's possibly quite feasible.

 

[whitenemesis]

So basically if "computer says no" your F***** No matter what your Driving.

As the computer is energised via the main Power button one would imagine there would be a 'failsafe' operation? In the owner's handbook for my Lexus it describes how to stop the car should the normal operation fail. Press and hold the Power button for 2sec or more or press it briefly 3 times or more in quick succession i.e in panic mode!!

 

[SmartAmg]

As the computer is energised via the main Power button one would imagine there would be a 'failsafe' operation? In the owner's handbook for my Lexus it describes how to stop the car should the normal operation fail. Press and hold the Power button for 2sec or more or press it briefly 3 times or more in quick succession i.e in panic mode!!

Which you definitely would be in.

 

[Bellow]

So basically if "computer says no" your F***** No matter what your Driving.

The probability of the mechanical failure that allows ICE runaway coinciding with a computer glitch preventing the selection of neutral is beyond calculation.
EVs where everything is under electronic control?....

 

[BTB 500]

I had an ICE 'runaway' on a car with twin carbs - the linkage connecting them came undone and one carb went fully open (it was spring-loaded to do that - nice design!), which was enough for the car to keep accelerating. I turned the ignition off, end of drama.

 

[markjay]

All rather academic really seeing as diesel runway is exceptionally rare. Probably because common rail diesels are generally pretty fussy about the type of oil they can burn.

Which is rarer - Car fires, Diesel cars runaway engines, unintended acceleration? Unfortunately I don't have an answer.

 

[GrahamT]

Which is rarer - Car fires, Diesel cars runaway engines, unintended acceleration? Unfortunately I don't have an answer.

I had a diesel runaway many years ago, It was a ommon rail Renault Laguna.

 

[markjay]

The probability of the mechanical failure that allows ICE runaway coinciding with a computer glitch preventing the selection of neutral is beyond calculation.
EVs where everything is under electronic control?....

Agreed, and yet there are reports of this happening (long before EVs entre the market). I never quote understood how it is possible, if I'm honest. But seeing that police were involved in some of these cases, I have to accept that it isn't a hoax - see for example (from 2006):

Also:

'Help, I'm doing 135mph and can't stop'

A quiet Sunday afternoon drive home from visiting friends turned into a terrifying 135mph ordeal for a motorist after the accelerator on his BMW jammed and the car's brakes failed.

www.independent.co.uk

BTW, the chap in the iPace apparently had this happen to him before in the same car - personally, for me even once is once too many... I would have never driven the same car again...

 

[markjay]

I had an ICE 'runaway' on a car with twin carbs - the linkage connecting them came undone and one carb went fully open (it was spring-loaded to do that - nice design!), which was enough for the car to keep accelerating. I turned the ignition off, end of drama.

A few years back, I saw someone crash a Ford Escort at the Costco car park - I heard an engine accelerating very rapidly, coupled with screeching brakes sound and the Escort crashed into a parked car at max engine revs - there was a child in the front seat who wasn't wearing a seat belt and cracked the windscreen with his head, sadly. He seemed to be not too badly hurt though - paramedics took him away while he was fully conscious. The driver (presumably his father) said that the car just accelerated by itself and didn't stop in spite of him stepping on the brake pedal. My guess is a mechanical fault with the accelerator pedal or throttle linkage - if the driver had more time to react, he would have probably been able to take it out of gear or switch off the engine, but it all happened very fast.

 

[Bellow]

Agreed, and yet there are reports of this happening (long before EVs entre the market). I never quote understood how it is possible, if I'm honest. But seeing that police were involved in some of these cases, I have to accept that it isn't a hoax - see for example (from 2006):

He could have and should have killed the engine with the key. On a straight motorway, the steering would have been manageable without PAS.

BTW, the chap in the iPace apparently had this happen to him before in the same car - personally, for me even once is once too many... I would have never driven the same car again...

Presumably the garage/dealership assured him it was fixed.

 

[Bellow]

A few years back, I saw someone crash a Ford Escort at the Costco car park - I heard an engine accelerating very rapidly, coupled with screeching brakes sound and the Escort crashed into a parked car at max engine revs - there was a child in the front seat who wasn't wearing a seat belt and cracked the windscreen with his head, sadly. He seemed to be not too badly hurt though - paramedics took him away while he was fully conscious. The driver (presumably his father) said that the car just accelerated by itself and didn't stop in spite of him stepping on the brake pedal. My guess is a mechanical fault with the accelerator pedal or throttle linkage - if the driver had more time to react, he would have probably been able to take it out of gear or switch off the engine, but it all happened very fast.

Declutching would have sufficed.

 

[SmartAmg]

Declutching would have sufficed.

But in that split second, in such a short space, he was only in a Car park, would you even think do that or anything else, for that matter. If you had more time to think then you probably would do something like that.

 

[markjay]

Declutching would have sufficed.

If manual, yes. In any event, the entire episode took under 10 seconds - I don't think the driver had enough time to properly think it through, let alone react.

 

[markjay]

He could have and should have killed the engine with the key. On a straight motorway, the steering would have been manageable without PAS.

True. And as long as the key isn't physically removed from the ignition, the steering wheel lock wouldn't engage, either.

Presumably the garage/dealership assured him it was fixed.

Obviously he must have been reassured - my comment was to say that I wouldn't be.

 

[Bellow]

But in that split second, in such a short space, he was only in a Car park, would you even think do that or anything else, for that matter. If you had more time to think then you probably would do something like that.

With a foot over the clutch, thought not required - instinct.

If manual, yes. In any event, the entire episode took under 10 seconds - I don't think the driver had enough time to properly think it through, let alone react.

In one tenth of a second the clutch pedal would have been on the floor and the key turned back a second later if it'd been me. That was an avoidable accident - with just a modicum of competence.

 

[markjay]

From here:

2009–2011 Toyota vehicle recalls - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Switching to neutral or turning off the ignition was typically not contemplated"

 

[markjay]

With a foot over the clutch, thought not required - instinct.


In one tenth of a second the clutch pedal would have been on the floor and the key turned back a second later if it'd been me. That was an avoidable accident - with just a modicum of competence.

This was a point raised in the case of Sully who landed on the Hudson, the insurer claimed that pilots were able to successfully land the plane on a simulator:

"Flight simulations showed that the airplane could have returned to LaGuardia, had it turned toward the airport immediately after the bird strike."

US Airways Flight 1549 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But Sully's point was that the pilots flying the simulator were told in advance what the problem was, however if you add the time needed for a pilot to assess the situation and decide on the action to take, then safe landing at LaGuardia was no longer possible.

 

[BTB 500]

On a straight motorway, the steering would have been manageable without PAS.

I once managed a roundabout on a NSL dual carriageway without PAS or much in the way of servo braking after the engine stopped dead on my Ford Granada (it was an auto, so no engine braking to speak of either). Took a bit of effort for sure, but I got away with it.