The EV fact thread

[markjay]

...Either way oil dilution and subsequent engine runaway are not faults endemic to oil burners which historically are the most reliable and long lived ICE powerplant.

True. Neither are runaways endemic to EVs (which is how this discussion started).

 

[ChipChop]

True. Neither are runaways endemic to EVs (which is how this discussion started).

Too early to tell i would say.

Granted EV's were around 125 years ago but their demise was due to the rise of the petroleum industry and an ever expanding road network system not early EV runaway issues. I suppose the question with the current incarnation of the EV is down to the reliability of complex electronics and the test for that will be time.

 

[BTB 500]

Too early to tell i would say.

Granted EV's were around 125 years ago but their demise was due to the rise of the petroleum industry and an ever expanding road network system not early EV runaway issues. I suppose the question with the current incarnation of the EV is down to the reliability of complex electronics and the test for that will be time.

Speaking of which I read today that there are roughly 300,000 cars over 40 years old still on the road in the UK, plus another 40,000 or so SORNed (DVLA figures released in December). Will be interesting to see how many current EVs are still usable 40+ years from now

 

[markjay]

Too early to tell i would say.

Agreed. It's also too early to tell if EVs have a tendency to turn into pumpkins at midnight - not enough EVs have been sold yet to be sure that this isn't a problem. One can't be too careful.

 

[Deleted member 55947]

I’ve just been stuck behind one of our local Politburo/Council electric vans with the slogan “Producing 100% cleaner air”.
Is this statement factually correct ?

 

[ChipChop]

Speaking of which I read today that there are roughly 300,000 cars over 40 years old still on the road in the UK, plus another 40,000 or so SORNed (DVLA figures released in December). Will be interesting to see how many current EVs are still usable 40+ years from now

I would hazard a guess that the number of EV's that will qualify for historic status (40+ yrs old) will be zero. The batteries will be flogged off for 'storage' long before that.

 

[ChipChop]

I’ve just been stuck behind one of our local Politburo/Council electric vans with the slogan “Producing 100% cleaner air”.
Is this statement factually correct ?

This vehicle is the reason your council tax bill went up by XX% last year would be more accurate.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Speaking of which I read today that there are roughly 300,000 cars over 40 years old still on the road in the UK, plus another 40,000 or so SORNed (DVLA figures released in December). Will be interesting to see how many current EVs are still usable 40+ years from now

I suspect that the longevity of modern ICE cars will be equally challenged.

 

[ALFAitalia]

...due to poor DPF design. You could call it planned diesel obsolescence thanks to successive euro emissions standards setting up the diesel to fail. Or there is always the hapless 'technician' apparently unable to measure engine oil fill levels correctly.

Either way oil dilution and subsequent engine runaway are not faults endemic to oil burners which historically are the most reliable and long lived ICE powerplant.

Never heard of an spark ignition engine having a run away as turning of the engine (and there for the sparks) would stop it. You need to high pressure of a compression ignition engine (derv) for the oil in the hot combustion chamber to ignite under pressure.

DPFs are nothing to do with runaways either....runaways happened long before DPFs were even thought of. Modern close coupled DPFs are very reliable....mines original at 173,000 miles.....the old ones under the engine or even half way along the exhaust just ran too cold and got blocked too easily because of the low temps. Mine being bolted directly onto the exhaust manifold in front of the engine is up to temp in seconds.

But all the badly thought through Adblue nonsense is just a recipe for disaster....to complex and easy to get blocked. Somehow, with all there might and engineering history, Mercedes seem to have managed to design one of the worst systems on the market. Adblue failure is rarely mentioned on other forums I go on.....

 

[Ted]

My old Bantam two stroke would ‘run away’ at high speed - I think Francis Barnets would do the same. We called it dieseling. Caused by a hot spot in the cylinder head.
Scary the first time it happened as turning off the ignition had no effect but you soon got used to it and could kill it by stalling it.
Not as dangerous as seizing up if yo got behind a bus or lorry.

 

[Bellow]

My old Bantam two stroke would ‘run away’ at high speed - I think Francis Barnets would do the same. We called it dieseling. Caused by a hot spot in the cylinder head.
Scary the first time it happened as turning off the ignition had no effect but you soon got used to it and could kill it by stalling it.

Kawasaki KX80s were the same apparently. Cars too. I had a Vauxhall that would run on when keyed off. Technique I adopted was to have it in gear and ease the clutch out as I turned the key back. Later, cars were fitted with a solenoid valve to admit air to the inlet manifold when the ignition was off to prevent it.

Not as dangerous as seizing up if yo got behind a bus or lorry.

And the clutch saved the day?
I don't think I ever want to drive/ride anything that doesn't have the facility for me to physically interrupt the drivetrain. (Got caught out as a kid with a bike with no clutch lever and a jammed open throttle. Had to drag it down with the rear brake - no front brake lever either!).

 

[ChipChop]

DPFs are nothing to do with runaways either....runaways happened long before DPFs were even thought of. Modern close coupled DPFs are very reliable....mines original at 173,000 miles.....the old ones under the engine or even half way along the exhaust just ran too cold and got blocked too easily because of the low temps. Mine being bolted directly onto the exhaust manifold in front of the engine is up to temp in seconds.

But all the badly thought through Adblue nonsense is just a recipe for disaster....to complex and easy to get blocked. Somehow, with all there might and engineering history, Mercedes seem to have managed to design one of the worst systems on the market. Adblue failure is rarely mentioned on other forums I go on.....

Quite right. I had JLR's Ingenium diesels in mind with their DPF's causing fuel dilution and catastrophic engine failure not runaway.

 

[ALFAitalia]

My old Bantam two stroke would ‘run away’ at high speed - I think Francis Barnets would do the same. We called it dieseling. Caused by a hot spot in the cylinder head.
Scary the first time it happened as turning off the ignition had no effect but you soon got used to it and could kill it by stalling it.
Not as dangerous as seizing up if yo got behind a bus or lorry.

My old DT250 would run occasionally backwards if I miss-timed the kick start!!!

 

[Ted]

And the clutch saved the day?

Yep . Happened a few times, and once you were familiar, you could recognise it and whip in the clutch before any serious damage was caused.
Also remember cars running on - especially on BL cars. They had a distinctive smell when they were running on.

 

[Bellow]

My old DT250 would run occasionally backwards if I miss-timed the kick start!!!

Aye, strokers will do that. Cue a groinfull of headstock...
Worst I've heard is when a powerful outboard 2T ingests a spit of water, stops for a nano-second then at full power runs backwards. Slams the boat down so hard it goes under.

 

[markjay]

I’ve just been stuck behind one of our local Politburo/Council electric vans with the slogan “Producing 100% cleaner air”.
Is this statement factually correct ?

No. An EV does not produce any air, clean or otherwise.

Unless you are referring to the coal-powered power plants that we still have feeding our grid?

 

[markjay]

I would hazard a guess that the number of EV's that will qualify for historic status (40+ yrs old) will be zero. The batteries will be flogged off for 'storage' long before that.

True, though I think that this is actually a gradual process culminating in EVs not being retained as classic cars in the long term - i.e. I don't see many modern cars retained, either - the ever-increasing complexity of cars will pretty much preclude DIY enthusiasts from keeping and maintaining them for decades to come - some cars will survive, but only those with high enough value to be maintained professionally (as is currently the case with Ferraris and Lamborghinis etc).

I just don't think that in 40 years times there will be many 2x/7x-rsgitered cars driven by little old ladies, like the Morris Minors or the Austin A30s that we still see on our roads from time to time.

 

[markjay]

This vehicle is the reason your council tax bill went up by XX% last year and also the reason that school kids are now breathing cleaner air would be more accurate.

FTFY

 

[markjay]

Never heard of an spark ignition engine having a run away as turning of the engine (and there for the sparks) would stop it.

Not common, but not entirely unheard off either - a petrol engine heavily contaminated by carbon build-up will continue to run - when very hot - after the ignition has been turned off (albeit at idle, not high rev), especially with older engines fitted with a mechanical fuel pump.

This is known as 'Dieseling' - because the engine is running without a spark from the spark plugs - although strictly speaking this term is incorrect because the engine is not running on compression alone, instead the mixture is being ignited by the smouldering carbon.

EDIT: Just saw Ted's post .

 

[ALFAitalia]

Sure....my dads old Cortina did that when too much carbon built up in the head....but thats "running on".....very different thing to an engine runaway.