The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

Nothing arcane about a battery and electric motor - we all grew up playing with such things.

Your scalextrix had orange cables that could kill you if you touched them?

And huge panoramic sunroofs that would suddenly shatter for no obvious reason?

We’ll see soon enough how big the appetite is for a used EV S Class or 7 series.

Looking at resale values of first gen S class plug in hybrids, it’s not looking good

 

[ToeKnee]

All depends where you look, for example, I've found a Tesla Model S 100d (the really really fast one) for £800. An MG4 X Power (also very fast) for £500.
So those above figures don't mean anything. Every comparison site has a ridiculous price at the end of the scale being quoted, but obviously no one ever takes them.

My above figures were the best available prices on a comparison site, the rest were a lot higher.

 

[SmartAmg]

My above figures were the best available prices on a comparison site, the rest were a lot higher.

Think I'd change comparison sites.

 

[tode]

I've just compared the cost for insuring a Tesla Model 3 and over here it comes to 450 - 750 €/year.

 

[SmartAmg]

I've just compared the cost for insuring a Tesla Model 3 and over here it comes to 450 - 750 €/year.

Thats more like it. But that's France. Not screw you Britain.

 

[clk320x]

Here's some EV facts for you! Just insured my daily car, a 2019 Mondeo 2.0 diesel and thought today I'd check prices for ev models using all the same criteria, only the car details would be different.
I wanted a similar sized car to the Mondeo so choose a Tesla, price was £5683! I thought that was expensive then realised I'd picked a model S 75D so changed the car to a standard model 3, price for that was £5357. So went to a smaller more basic car, the MG ZS. That was better at £1715.
So: -
Mondeo £1300
Tesla model S £5683
Tesla model 3 £5357
MG ZS £1715.

I pay less than you pay for the Mondeo for my Model X. These numbers mean nothing as insurance is so variable by your individual circumstances.

 

[clk320x]

Your scalextrix had orange cables that could kill you if you touched them?

Have you actually worked on a Tesla before?

Me and my friend had a go literally stripping out the entire boot of mine near the charge port whilst prepping it for some bodywork to save the shop time, all the HV stuff is so well insulated ‘touching it’ really wouldn’t do anything, all you’ve got to do is disconnect the fireman’s loop/12V and those cables are dead as a dodo anyway… these cars are ridiculously easy to work on, no diagnostic tool needed a majority of the time as service mode shows all alerts. Airbag lights self-clear when you disconnect airbag modules and connect them back, unlike other cars that need diagnostic equipment etc.

 

[Ted]

I changed a light switch the other day. Two screws and there was a 240 volt cable all ready to kill me.
Of course I observed safety precautions. Tripped the supply, tested with a voltage tester and a test light (which I had poked into a live supply to check they worked), and then brushed the cables with the back of my hand.
But still, two screws and potential death.
On my car (don’t know if a Tesla is the same) the hybrid system, including leakage tests are performed before the bright orange cables become live. The system is fully insulated so you would need to touch both wires to get a shock (unlike mains), You have to pull a safety plug at the battery which is keyed and then used to open the battery cover if you want to remove said cover.
And the inverter has an interlock/cutout if you were stupid enough to try and remove the cover with the hybrid system fired up.
And people who are qualified to work on these vehicles have to wear thick insulated gloves to work on the HV side.
Seriously, it all seems pretty safe to me.

 

[clk320x]

I changed a light switch the other day. Two screws and there was a 240 volt cable all ready to kill me.
Of course I observed safety precautions. Tripped the supply, tested with a voltage tester and a test light (which I had poked into a live supply to check they worked), and then brushed the cables with the back of my hand.
But still, two screws and potential death.
On my car (don’t know if a Tesla is the same) the hybrid system, including leakage tests are performed before the bright orange cables become live. The system is fully insulated so you would need to touch both wires to get a shock (unlike mains), You have to pull a safety plug at the battery which is keyed and then used to open the battery cover if you want to remove said cover.
And the inverter has an interlock/cutout if you were stupid enough to try and remove the cover with the hybrid system fired up.
And people who are qualified to work on these vehicles have to wear thick insulated gloves to work on the HV side.
Seriously, it all seems pretty safe to me.

 

[ToeKnee]

I pay less than you pay for the Mondeo for my Model X. These numbers mean nothing as insurance is so variable by your individual circumstances.

I agree insurance can be variable, but in my example I removed all variables except the vehicle! So in the snapshot I posted it means a lot to me because if I had bought an EV instead of the Mondeo my insurance costs would have been higher, possible a lot higher if I'd have gone for a similar sized car to the Mondeo.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Thats more like it. But that's France. Not screw you Britain.

I’m surprised. France always used to be way more expensive than suburban / rural England. And for good reason

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I changed a light switch the other day. Two screws and there was a 240 volt cable all ready to kill me.
Of course I observed safety precautions. Tripped the supply, tested with a voltage tester and a test light (which I had poked into a live supply to check they worked), and then brushed the cables with the back of my hand.
But still, two screws and potential death.
On my car (don’t know if a Tesla is the same) the hybrid system, including leakage tests are performed before the bright orange cables become live. The system is fully insulated so you would need to touch both wires to get a shock (unlike mains), You have to pull a safety plug at the battery which is keyed and then used to open the battery cover if you want to remove said cover.
And the inverter has an interlock/cutout if you were stupid enough to try and remove the cover with the hybrid system fired up.
And people who are qualified to work on these vehicles have to wear thick insulated gloves to work on the HV side.
Seriously, it all seems pretty safe to me.

Set up a Tesla repair shop for off warranty vehicles and the world will beat a path to your door. How hard can it be? It’s only. A few rechargeable batteries in a box, connected to an iPad.

Maybe do a bit of a breakers business too. EBay is your friend

 

[clk320x]

Maybe do a bit of a breakers business too. EBay is your friend

Massive breakers yards exist who only do EVs,

Tesla-parts-online, EVBreakers etc.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Have you actually worked on a Tesla before?

Me and my friend had a go literally stripping out the entire boot of mine near the charge port whilst prepping it for some bodywork to save the shop time, all the HV stuff is so well insulated ‘touching it’ really wouldn’t do anything, all you’ve got to do is disconnect the fireman’s loop/12V and those cables are dead as a dodo anyway… these cars are ridiculously easy to work on, no diagnostic tool needed a majority of the time as service mode shows all alerts. Airbag lights self-clear when you disconnect airbag modules and connect them back, unlike other cars that need diagnostic equipment etc.

Excellent news. Do you normally run complex vehicles that are a decade old? Or do you usually run stuff within its warranty period.

I’m not saying that I’ve worked on EV’s. I’m repeating what Hertz, insurance companies and other garages have said about why EV’s are scrapped at the drop of a hat, and why EVs are off the road for long periods of time because staff can’t be found to work on them - see the Porsche Taycan fiasco

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Massive breakers yards exist who only do EVs,

Tesla-parts-online, EVBreakers etc.

I know, that’s why I’m saying “ join in, it’s easy money !”

 

[Bellow]

Re- Dacia Spring
137 mile range (prob nearer 100 miles out here in the real world) will be enough for town folks and local use......but even with my low miles that's a bit on the low side for me.

Ditto re range for me but Dacia's research showed its typical customer does 23 miles daily at an average speed of 23mph so as you say, fine for town/local use.

Can't deny its cheap though......in more ways than one!!!

As ever, you get what you pay for. Dacia's trick seems to be providing only what the customer wants.

Dont know why it needs to be so quick though.....who needs 0-62mph time of 19.1sec and a top speed of 78mph.......?......LOL

To be fair, that's the lower powered model's figures. The 65hp version (the only one to be sold in the UK apparently) gets to 60mph in a slightly more spritely 14s. A Parkers road test describes it as being nippy in the 0-30mph range which is more in tune with town/local use. Low power figures for sure, but it may help in keeping insurance premiums low - a contentious issue with EVs.

 

[Bellow]

I think in the case of the Dacia Spring if it doesn't sell so many then it will likely be the range that is the issue more than the price.

Maybe, or maybe its range for its intended use is adequate and other virtues (manoeuvrability, ease of parking, low insurance costs, etc) make it attractive. Or, it will be rejected as merely one step up from a Citroen Ami as long as £15k still buys a plusher used ICE car in which case it may not survive to the point where it is actually needed. Still, a reasonable test of what the market wants at the lower price points.

I note that you can get a 73 plate prereg delivery mileage C4 EV for £20K with "200" mile range. That looks like a similar sort of litmus test.

That's a one off deal that wont endure in contrast to the Spring's fixed for duration £15k price tag. Citroen's website suggests C4 prices are nearer double the Dacia's.

Publish Online

indd.adobe.com

(Similar EQC is down to £44.5K - these have been available since before Christmas with price having dropped from £50K).

So far from the Dacia's market segment as to be meaningless in this discussion.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

“Elon Musk promised cheaper, better, even “revolutionary” auto insurance after Tesla started losing sales because of high premiums. But understaffing left some customers waiting weeks or months for compensation as they continued making payments on crashed cars.“

More detail here, from Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-insurance/

 

[tode]

I’m surprised. France always used to be way more expensive than suburban / rural England. And for good reason

During which period was " France always used to be way more expensive than suburban / rural England" ?

Did you spend a lot of time in France?

And the good reason was . . . ?

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Who cares? Why does it matter?

I care. This lot put a pox on the World that we’ll be paying off for generations and people are queuing up to give them money to the detriment of other economies.

It matters as people buy these EV’s in good faith to help the environment yet conveniently forget about all the coal mines this lot are opening up to power the factories that make these cars. Utter madness