The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

Well that's a great message for the government to put out and which ever way you look at it is good news.

But the self righteous tone is bollocks because the comparison with 1879 is false and they know it. The current emissions shown above don't account for emission produced by our imports. We have effectively exported our emissions by have someone else release them on a scale that is nearly double the emissions we are owning up to. This is just one of the reasons why we will never achieve a true net zero.

View attachment 154267


https://archive.ph/8jVY3

Pardon? What makes you think that that analysis was put out by the Government or that it’s “self-righteous?”

Read it again. It’s published by a Carbon reduction pressure group that’s nothing to do with our or any other a government.

It clearly said that last years numbers were due to a mild winter across Europe, the high cost of energy, and imports of (essentially nuclear) energy from France.

Yes it does acknowledge that just 12 years ago Coal power stations produced 40% of Britain’s electricity, but how is the transition to solar and wind “self-righteous?”

We knew all this stuff was happening. We know all the caveats - mild winter, offshoring manufacturing CO2 emissions to Germany, China and India, our endless obsession with increased air travel and so on. A jolly good war in the Middle East, Eastern Europe and a proper winter could reverse all these temporary gains. But the numbers are dramatic, which is why they’re reported.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Long video but to cut a long story short, this Taycan EV owner has a car worth about £40k, 3 years after paying £120k for it.
Problem being he owes the finance company £64k so is around £20k in negative equity.
A new battery is £45k and labour £7k according to him.
Doesn't make good viewing for EV crusaders.

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Yes, it’s horrible, isn’t it ?

Not as bad as its BMW 8 series rival which has lost 74% of its value: a cool £100,000 lost by their first owners. An enormous sum of money on a car that doesn’t have any faults to it at all. And the Maserati Ghibli is just as bad.

And there the 2020 S63 coupe that loses £100,000 in its first three years after really quite low mileages. How do these ICE idiots buy luxury high performance cars when there’s no second user market for them?

Even the bog standard Audi A6 is losing two thirds of its value after the arrival of the E-Tron. It’s been such a bloodbath for ICE. Do these folks realise that when they’re buying a £90k S6, they’re losing £60 in their first three years? Are they fools?

Fastest depreciating cars: top 10 worst motoring money pits | Auto Express

Almost every new car depreciates, but some shed value faster than others. These are the top 10 fastest depreciating cars on sale today

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[ALFAitalia]

No one cares. because next to no one owns any of these cars because about 90 percent of them are bought on PCP or contract hire.... so as long as they or their company can afford the monthly payments then no one cares much about the depreciation.....its always been like that... way before EVs. And as for the 10 percent or less that buy 100k plus cars for cash.... well they are either mad or minted enough that 70 or 80k loss over 3 years is probably just a small part of their annual bonus!

 

[markjay]

Long video but to cut a long story short, this Taycan EV owner has a car worth about £40k, 3 years after paying £120k for it.
Problem being he owes the finance company £64k so is around £20k in negative equity.
A new battery is £45k and labour £7k according to him.
Doesn't make good viewing for EV crusaders.

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I didn't watch the video yet, but why wasn't the battery swap covered under warranty? I believe it's eight-year/100,000-mile in the UK.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

No one cares. because next to no one owns any of these cars because about 90 percent of them are bought on PCP or contract hire.... so as long as they or their company can afford the monthly payments then no one cares much about the depreciation.....its always been like that... way before EVs. And as for the 10 percent or less that buy 100k plus cars for cash.... well they are either mad or minted enough that 70 or 80k loss over 3 years is probably just a small part of their annual bonus!

I’m just making the point that a 66% loss over three years is routine in this luxury / performance sector, even though, for the Taycan it seems to be about some kind of fault.. (Its still odd that there’s no warranty cover)

Even manufacturing faults aren’t that odd on ICE- think of all the BmW V8’s that blew up at the drop of a hat in the 2010’s and 1990’s. 550is and 750i’s that were off the road for half the year as BMW struggled to source and supply new engines. And then there’s Land Rover.

PCP & Finance? At this level it’s not so much about containing cost. Wealth is more important than income. Even if you’re a junior relative of the Sultan of Brunei, just a routine Pro Sportsman, or an Entrepreneur, you have money, you don’t “need” finance.

Finally just pause to “feel sorry” for the ICE “collectors” who did buy cars three years ago thinking that finance was 0% and that special cars don’t depreciate. They’ve had a nasty surprise this last year or so. Those DB5’s didn’t stay at £750k for ever. Ditto the Conti’s - at a much lower level

2023 brought big shifts in the classic car market | Hagerty UK

It would seem that 2023 was a year of correction in the classic car market, something that many people argued was long overdue.

www.hagerty.co.uk

 

[SmartAmg]

I didn't watch the video yet, but why wasn't the battery swap covered under warranty? I believe it's eight-year/100,000-mile in the UK.

Probably was, but then that doesn't make good, sh1t stirring watching.

 

[markjay]

I think that the real question is here isn't whether £100k+ EVs hold their value well, because this is a theoretical issue... anyone who can afford to spend £100k+ on an expensive toy can also afford to lose the majority of it, and few people will shed a tear for them. The more practical question is whether second hand EVs become affordable over time? Because £50-60k is still well over what the average motorist will be willing to part with for a used family car. We should be looking at second hand values of likes of the full electric Kia Niro and hope that they become affordable soon. Massively underpriced Taycans help no one - they make good YouTube watching, but that's about it.

 

[Steveml63]

Hi,
I just had the first service visit to my house from Tesla today.
The technician changed the cabin AC filters (these are really supposed to be changed every 6 months in this country due to the dusty conditions).
Our Tesla Model 3 Performance has now covered 39,145 km since we bought it new in November 2022.
The cost for parts and labour for this filter change was equivalent of £46.17.
The technician was driving a blue 2020 Model 3 Performance with 170,000km on the clock on its original battery & motors.
It still has 83% battery range (equivalent to around 415km - 260 miles) which I thought was not bad!


Cheers
Steve

 

[SmartAmg]

Hi,
I just had the first service visit to my house from Tesla today.
The technician changed the cabin AC filters (these are really supposed to be changed every 6 months in this country due to the dusty conditions).
Our Tesla Model 3 Performance has now covered 39,145 km since we bought it new in November 2022.
The cost for parts and labour for this filter change was equivalent of £46.17.
The technician was driving a blue 2020 Model 3 Performance with 170,000km on the clock on its original battery & motors.
It still has 83% battery range (equivalent to around 415km - 260 miles) which I thought was not bad!

View attachment 154295View attachment 154296
Cheers
Steve

That's good to hear. No doubt though someone will pick faults
in it.

 

[philnewmerc]

Hi,
I just had the first service visit to my house from Tesla today.
The technician changed the cabin AC filters (these are really supposed to be changed every 6 months in this country due to the dusty conditions).
Our Tesla Model 3 Performance has now covered 39,145 km since we bought it new in November 2022.
The cost for parts and labour for this filter change was equivalent of £46.17.
The technician was driving a blue 2020 Model 3 Performance with 170,000km on the clock on its original battery & motors.
It still has 83% battery range (equivalent to around 415km - 260 miles) which I thought was not bad!

View attachment 154295View attachment 154296
Cheers
Steve

Sounds very cheap servicing. Out of curiosity is the gearbox oil filled for life?

 

[clk320x]

Sounds very cheap servicing. Out of curiosity is the gearbox oil filled for life?

There’s no routine servicing bar a cabin filter & brake fluid.

 

[PXW]

Sounds very cheap servicing. Out of curiosity is the gearbox oil filled for life?

It doesn’t have a gearbox in the conventional sense - it has a simple single speed transmission. The whole electric motor/transmission only has something like 17 moving parts so it’s fine for the transmission fluid to be effectively sealed for life. As clk320x says above, there is very little “servicing” to do and no maintenance schedule that would affect warranty etc.

This seems to be one of the areas that traditional ICE manufacturers are trying to cling on to. Mrs PXW’s MG ZS EV has to go to a workshop for a “service” once a year to maintain the 7 year warranty - they can’t explain what they actually do for their £140 though!

 

[markjay]

And there's more....

UK drivers make claims of ‘dangerous’ electric car faults

Motorists locked inside their cars, while an NHS doctor said her BMW iX accelerated to 65mph and then crashed

www.theguardian.com

Some interesting developments:

Police arrest Jaguar I-Pace driver on suspicion of dangerous driving

Nathan Owen, 31, was arrested by Merseyside Police in relation to the incident on the M62 on Wednesday, March 6.

mol.im

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Some interesting developments:

Police arrest Jaguar I-Pace driver on suspicion of dangerous driving

Nathan Owen, 31, was arrested by Merseyside Police in relation to the incident on the M62 on Wednesday, March 6.

mol.im

TBH. We aren’t the only ones who wonder whether some of these claims are either to buyers regret or a fraudulent claim against the manufacturer

 

[Petrol Pete]

If he is convicted JLR most likely have a very strong case against him.

 

[markjay]

TBH. We aren’t the only ones who wonder whether some of these claims are either to buyers regret or a fraudulent claim against the manufacturer

It would have been daft of him to try it on.

Anglesey crossbow murder: How car technology helped catch a killer

Details showing a car's movements were a key factor in finding the killer of Gerald Corrigan.

www.google.com

The crossbow killer was caught because his Disco recorded the boot lid being opened at the GPS location of the crime scene.

I am fairly certain that a brand new i-Pace wil record every single action taken inside the cabin - what pedal was pressed, what force was used etc.

If the data shows that he did not step on the brake pedal as he said he did - he's done for....

 

[philnewmerc]

There’s no routine servicing bar a cabin filter & brake fluid.

I suppose it is obvious, but I doubt many ice drivers or potential second hand buyers realise that there is another saving there. Interestingly, the bigger the car the bigger the saving (compared with ice where bigger car = larger service cost)... Good for future luxobarge buyers!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I suppose it is obvious, but I doubt many ice drivers or potential second hand buyers realise that there is another saving there. Interestingly, the bigger the car the bigger the saving (compared with ice where bigger car = larger service cost)... Good for future luxobarge buyers!

Doesn't quite work. The claim is based on "routine servicing," which is nice.

Luxobarge bargains traditionally come from cost of purchase, depreciation, fuel cost, servicing, and repairs.

As we've already seen, Teslas are even more expensive when it comes to repairs, parts, and shortage of technicians and bodywork staff prepared to work on them.

So you can buy an early I-pace for £17k, which is nice, and it won't cost much to routinely service, but there's a whole range of other costs and risks out there.

 

[PXW]

Doesn't quite work. The claim is based on "routine servicing," which is nice.

Luxobarge bargains traditionally come from cost of purchase, depreciation, fuel cost, servicing, and repairs.

As we've already seen, Teslas are even more expensive when it comes to repairs, parts, and shortage of technicians and bodywork staff prepared to work on them.

So you can buy an early I-pace for £17k, which is nice, and it won't cost much to routinely service, but there's a whole range of other costs and risks out there.

Not sure I’m seeing your point. The repair risks related to eg suspension, steering etc aren’t EV specific, and arguably the really big potential risks (eg new ICE engine, gearbox) aren’t comparable as the EV typically has long warranties on battery/drivetrain items - certainly a lot longer than the typical 3 year ICE equivalent. And the fact still remains that you aren’t shelling out £000s per annum in routine servicing.

Don’t know what your experience of “even more expensive” Tesla workshops/parts is - there were glitches as for the whole industry during Covid/UKR war - but I’m not seeing systemic issues on the Tesla forums now. And there are increasing numbers of EV specialist workshops happy to work on out of warranty cars like mine.

 

[clk320x]

Don’t know what your experience of “even more expensive” Tesla workshops/parts is - there were glitches as for the whole industry during Covid/UKR war - but I’m not seeing systemic issues on the Tesla forums now. And there are increasing numbers of EV specialist workshops happy to work on out of warranty cars like mine.

I’ve never had an issue either.

Brakes etc are standard.

Bodywork is also pretty much the same, once you disconnect 12V power the HV contactors are disengaged and you can use spot welder etc. My regular Bodyshop has done any repairs needed no issue.