The EV fact thread

[markjay]

For this reason if I lived on - or very close to - a very fast road, then I would almost certainly use an EV for most journeys. I cringe when I see people pull out of their driveway and accelerate hard in to an NSL road following a cold start.

Although I get a kick from using ridiculous cars for mundane trips like taking the Smart Roadster on a 450 mile round trip for a day out, or taking the 250 SWB to the chip shop, I really should use our EV more for the latter - they’re perfect for that.

This car will probably fetch a good price when sold second hand due to 'low mileage'...

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[MikeInWimbledon]

Councils that do not have the foresight to invest in public chargers in their residential areas, will continue to see their city centres clogged-up with cars running cold engines and emitting even more harmful exhaust gasses than they normally would.

The City centres I use are usually clogged up with folks who live OUTSIDE the city centres and who drive in to "do their business."

From shopkeepers to Taxi Drivers, from Housewives to Pensioners: they all seem to live, and charge their EV's, in Suburbia. Usually overnight.

On driveways, or out side terraced houses

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Apparently, roadside pollution in outer London was down an average of 3.5% on what it would have been without ULEZ in the six months after the zone was extended in August 2023.
Of course that won't have been just the direct result of ULEZ, with people changing to less polluting vehicles also contributing. What's harder to measure is without ULEZ, how many of those less polluting vehicles would have been bought and how many people would have stayed out of the area.

Does correlation imply causation ?

UK life expectancy has fallen by half a year after ThatWhichCannotBeNamed in 2020. (From 79.7 to 79.2 for men, but don't panic, that's Life Expectancy from Birth, not for someone already your age)

Was this caused directly? Was this caused indirectly? Or was it caused by something else?

We've scrapped a lot of dirty cars, we've shoved a lot of (originally EU recommended) Diesels out of London, and we've shoved a lot of people into partial Working from Home. And then there's the lifecycle impact of Euro6 vehicles each year replacing Euro2, Euro3, and Euro4 as part of the general updating of the fleet.

The only thing we can be certain here is that local government now has a steady income stream of £300+ million a year, and we are on-track to more sophisticated road pricing using automated road gantries.

 

[Connoisseur]

Does correlation imply causation ?

UK life expectancy has fallen by half a year after ThatWhichCannotBeNamed in 2020. (From 79.7 to 79.2 for men, but don't panic, that's Life Expectancy from Birth, not for someone already your age)

Was this caused directly? Was this caused indirectly? Or was it caused by something else?

We've scrapped a lot of dirty cars, we've shoved a lot of (originally EU recommended) Diesels out of London, and we've shoved a lot of people into partial Working from Home. And then there's the lifecycle impact of Euro6 vehicles each year replacing Euro2, Euro3, and Euro4 as part of the general updating of the fleet.

The only thing we can be certain here is that local government now has a steady income stream of £300+ million a year, and we are on-track to more sophisticated road pricing using automated road gantries.

View attachment 164394

“The only thing we can be certain here is that local government now has a steady income stream of £300+ million a year” £300 million from what?

 

[TC350]

Does correlation imply causation ?

UK life expectancy has fallen by half a year after ThatWhichCannotBeNamed in 2020. (From 79.7 to 79.2 for men, but don't panic, that's Life Expectancy from Birth, not for someone already your age)

Was this caused directly? Was this caused indirectly? Or was it caused by something else?

We've scrapped a lot of dirty cars, we've shoved a lot of (originally EU recommended) Diesels out of London, and we've shoved a lot of people into partial Working from Home. And then there's the lifecycle impact of Euro6 vehicles each year replacing Euro2, Euro3, and Euro4 as part of the general updating of the fleet.

The only thing we can be certain here is that local government now has a steady income stream of £300+ million a year, and we are on-track to more sophisticated road pricing using automated road gantries.

View attachment 164394

We’ll never know how much ULEZ was responsible for reducing roadside pollution in London. We’d need a copy of London within a 100 miles or so but without ULEZ to determine how much, if any, influence it had.

 

[poormansporsche]

Amazon Van burst into flames

"One fire engine attended"

Discuss

 

[pioneercollector]

EV Townstar update - We now have three new Nissan Townstar van 1 x SWB and 2 x LWB, ( Took 12 months to actually get the last two vans in the spec we wanted ). Nice vans and great for what we do ( We have run Nissan EV vans for approaching 10 years now, and have just the last remaining eNV200 left to replace )

Anyway i have to say that the cold weather really compromises the range. The WLTP is given at 187 miles, in the summer this can increase to a reported 221 miles, the last couple of weeks the vans on a full charge have been sat around the 130 range ( Today was 120! )

Just something to consider if venturing into the EV market, This doesn't really affect us as we always have a fully charged van back at base if needed - But would certainly put me off buying one for personal use.

I still really rate the experience of this drive train and they work for us for what we do and have been happy with the vans, especially with the zero road tax, and saving around £25k per year in diesel costs..... as electricity prices rise and road tax will be coming in soon the benefits are reducing somewhat - Apart from the doddle to drive in very traffic congested streets everyday

 

[BTB 500]

Anyway i have to say that the cold weather really compromises the range. The WLTP is given at 187 miles, in the summer this can increase to a reported 221 miles, the last couple of weeks the vans on a full charge have been sat around the 130 range ( Today was 120! )

Just something to consider if venturing into the EV market, This doesn't really affect us as we always have a fully charged van back at base if needed - But would certainly put me off buying one for personal use.

Yup that's the issue we're facing - virtually all the mileage we do in the Vito is at motorway speeds, which reduces the range even further (much increased aerodynamic drag and virtually no regen braking). Not to mention having to pull a caravan with it in the summer months. I can see that electric vans work OK at lower speeds/shorter distances in a more urban environment though, particularly with the incentives/tax breaks/etc. for business use.

As mentioned elsewhere at 5.1% the 2024 market share for electric vans is now lower than the same period last year, and barely half this year's ZEV mandate target of 10%.

Confirmed today that Luton are closing their historic factory in Luton with the loss of 1100 jobs.

Stellantis, which also owns brands including Citroen, Peugeot and Fiat, said it would combine its electric van production at its other UK plant in Ellesmere Port in Cheshire.

Rules imposed to speed up the transition to electric vehicles (EV) in the UK partly drove the decision, the firm said.

Vauxhall owner Stellantis to close Luton plant putting 1,100 jobs at risk

Motor giant Stellantis says it is closing the van making plant in the context of the UK's rules on electric vehicle sales.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ALFAitalia]

Don't think it will be quite 1100 though.....they are offering jobs at their other plant Ellesmere Port, Merseyside......but that means the pain of relocation so I wonder how many will take up that offer.

 

[BTB 500]

After 120 years there the impact on the local area and suppliers could be significant too.

 

[markjay]

Yup that's the issue we're facing - virtually all the mileage we do in the Vito is at motorway speeds, which reduces the range even further (much increased aerodynamic drag and virtually no regen braking). Not to mention having to pull a caravan with it in the summer months. I can see that electric vans work OK at lower speeds/shorter distances in a more urban environment though, particularly with the incentives/tax breaks/etc. for business use.

As mentioned elsewhere at 5.1% the 2024 market share for electric vans is now lower than the same period last year, and barely half this year's ZEV mandate target of 10%.

Confirmed today that Luton are closing their historic factory in Luton with the loss of 1100 jobs.

Vauxhall owner Stellantis to close Luton plant putting 1,100 jobs at risk

Motor giant Stellantis says it is closing the van making plant in the context of the UK's rules on electric vehicle sales.

www.bbc.co.uk

Clearly, you'll need an ICE van to tow a caravan at motorway speeds, at lease until battery technology improves significantly. The van is a heavy vehicle with very poor aerodynamics.

Electric vans come into their own as urban delivery vehicles - clean, quiet, and cheap to run, and range isn't an issue at all when pottering around town with frequent stops.

In theory the government's plan should have worked well, with an 'allowance' of 20% ICE cars for those who really need them, while everyone else drives an EV.

The issue is that people are reluctant to give up their ICE cars, meaning that the 20% ICE cars will see not only those who actually need them try and buy one, but also very many people who simply dislike EVs.

 

[BTB 500]

Clearly, you'll need an ICE van to tow a caravan at motorway speeds, at lease until battery technology improves significantly. The van is a heavy vehicle with very poor aerodynamics.

My concern is that supply of new ICE vans may be restricted, to 'encourage' people to switch. Particularly if manufacturers are going to be hit with massive fines for not achieving the ZEV mandate target (they are a long way off this). Diesel isn't politically popular so I was hoping that some petrol ICE vans might be (re) introduced as a stop gap. Ford & VW have a joint venture 2.5 litre petrol hybrid which is probably what I'd go for right now, although it's debatable whether that would be any more reliable in the long term than an EU6 diesel

 

[markjay]

My concern is that supply of new ICE vans may be restricted, to 'encourage' people to switch. Particularly if manufacturers are going to be hit with massive fines for not achieving the ZEV mandate target (they are a long way off this). Diesel isn't politically popular so I was hoping that some petrol ICE vans might be (re) introduced as a stop gap. Ford & VW have a joint venture 2.5 litre petrol hybrid which is probably what I'd go for right now, although it's debatable whether that would be any more reliable in the long term than an EU6 diesel

The fines are in relation to percentage of production/sales, not absolute figures.

I.e. if people bought EVs in their droves, then car manufacturers could continue and sell plenty of ICE cars and vans well beyond 2035.

The issue that car makers have now, is that with weak demand for EVs, they won't be able to make the ICE cars that some people want, not enough to meet demand, anyway.

This is why car makers want the government to increase the tax breaks and other EV subsidies - if people buy more EVs, then car makers can keep ICE production lines open for longer.

The obvious issue is that this government has both a Green agenda and a high-taxes ideology, and the two are incompatible. Someting got to give........

 

[AMGeed]

I have a confession to make. I have changed my mind on the Tesla. Well the Tesla 3 anyway.
After being totally undewhelmed by the Tesla S not long after it was introduced I disliked the shoddy build quality and the size of the damn thing. An SUV sized car! The only thing it had going for it was the impressive acceleration.

Well my nephew in Abu Dhabi crashed his Corvette and decided to buy a new Tesla 3.
I got a ride last week and was thoroughly impressed. Well built, lovely light grey interior, very comfortable with plenty of rear leg room, multi coloured internal lighting (aka W213 E63) and impressive performance (0 -60 2.9 secs) Over the air updates with additional features added as ownership goes on, its a nice car. He said it takes 40mins to fast charge with over a week of local driving between charges. Electric chargers are in much greater number than in the UK it appears. Every garage and most big car parks have lots of bays. It seems a big take up in home chargers too from what I saw, although I guess those in apartment blocks face the same problems as anywhere else.

I still wouldn't buy one, but its grown on me.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Well built??? Lol....

Specsavers?

 

[AMGeed]

Well built??? Lol....

Specsavers?

Nope. Check out the 2024 model.
Maybe its you who needs Specsavers.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Most reviews conclude the 24 is better ... but still not good.

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[BTB 500]

The fines are in relation to percentage of production/sales, not absolute figures.

I.e. if people bought EVs in their droves, then car manufacturers could continue and sell plenty of ICE cars and vans well beyond 2035.

However the ZEV mandate stipulates 100% of vehicle sales to be zero emission (i.e. BEV or hydrogen) by 2035. So manufacturers would be fined £15,000 for every ICE sold thereafter... no big deal for small volume/high value manufacturers (Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc.) but IMHO it's unlikely mass market vehicles would be sold on that basis.

 

[Steveml63]

I have a confession to make. I have changed my mind on the Tesla. Well the Tesla 3 anyway.
After being totally undewhelmed by the Tesla S not long after it was introduced I disliked the shoddy build quality and the size of the damn thing. An SUV sized car! The only thing it had going for it was the impressive acceleration.

Well my nephew in Abu Dhabi crashed his Corvette and decided to buy a new Tesla 3.
I got a ride last week and was thoroughly impressed. Well built, lovely light grey interior, very comfortable with plenty of rear leg room, multi coloured internal lighting (aka W213 E63) and impressive performance (0 -60 2.9 secs) Over the air updates with additional features added as ownership goes on, its a nice car. He said it takes 40mins to fast charge with over a week of local driving between charges. Electric chargers are in much greater number than in the UK it appears. Every garage and most big car parks have lots of bays. It seems a big take up in home chargers too from what I saw, although I guess those in apartment blocks face the same problems as anywhere else.

I still wouldn't buy one, but its grown on me.

We have a 2023 Tesla Model 3 Performance in Abu Dhabi and it has been faultless.
Build quality is very good - but the car does not have the luxury features of high end German brands, for instance.
Our car has Enhanced Auto Pilot and early this week we received the latest OTA software update that now gives us Actually Smart Summon.
I tried it as our local shopping centre in Yas the other day - it’s amazing!
I had parked the car as normal and went into the shops. When I came out, I stood at the entrance and activated the Actually Smart Summon on my phone.
The car was parked around 25m from where I was standing. I asked it to “come to me” on the app.
The car then put on all its lights, drove forward from the parking bay, turned left and drove forward, then it turned and headed towards the area I was standing, put on its indicator to show it was turning into the kerb and stopped right by me.

Interestingly I repeated the exercise last night and instead of turning left out of the space - it turned right ( to avoid another car in an opposite bay that had started to move forward). It then proceeded right around the car park and came to me from the other direction!
It’s an interesting party trick, for sure!
Now just waiting for “Banish” to be released - you will exit the car at the entrance to the shops and the car will find an empty parking space and park itself, apparently!
Few photos below of our car.
Did not like the 1970’s British Leyland wood trim on the dash - so immediately changed that to carbon fibre trim!
Cars here tend to be heavily tinted (up to 50% tint is allowed) ours has 40% tint.

 

[GrahamT]