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The EV fact thread

Loving the continued assumption that EVs depend on commercial chargers, whereas for most they are charged overnight at home. Which is why charging bays are so empty all the time.

I’m off to the West Country today to see a car. Long journey: 220 mile round trip: probably 5 hours. If I was in an EV I’d probably do it on home electricity, but if it was an inefficient EV like the I-pace I’d plug it in for 10-15 minutes while on a coffee, lunch or bladder stop.
My Tesla owning pal tells me that a good proportion of charge points are out of order at any given time .

Lots of people have no option to have home chargers ; and others who do use free chargers in public places or at work , rather than having to charge off their own electricity which they have to pay for .
 
My Tesla owning pal tells me that a good proportion of charge points are out of order at any given time .

Lots of people have no option to have home chargers ; and others who do use free chargers in public places or at work , rather than having to charge off their own electricity which they have to pay for .
For sure, for sure.

Just taken a comfort break at solstice on the A303. As always, no EV queues, just a load of empty bays with people turning up, connecting and driving off shortly afterwards.

The evidence is out there for all to see.

Wouldn’t have needed to top up on this 200 mile journey. Thanks to our motorway network, I’ll struggle to go faster than an average of 40mph

So that would be £4 to do 200 miles using electricity from the home pump.

Must rush: car to be seen

IMG_5894.jpeg
 
I thought the 124 had to have a new or rebuilt engine though? :)

Not really a good comparison if so, and I’m sure you had to put a new engine in your 190E as well?

Think how many oil changes, oil filters, air filters, spark plugs, ignition leads, coolant changes, radiators, water pumps, belts, gaskets etc would be needed on your typical ICE car to reach anything approaching those sorts of mileages plus all of the fuel needed to take them to six figure mileages. Many newer engines simply don’t make these sorts of mileages as the cost of repair is too high.

Yes some MB older engines can cover quite high mileages but this doesn’t really take anything away from moving forwards with with new technology does it? We can’t buy W124s anymore and they’re not compliant with current emissions standards in the Capital either. As for keeping things running - anything can be repaired or replaced if people want to - trigger’s broom anyone? :)
One of my seven 124s had a new short motor at 380,000 , before I got it and was on 470,000 miles when I broke it . The high mileage one ( the Indian E250D ) was on its original engine at 650,000 when sold on ( although that car had manual gearbox issues ) but it had been a taxi before I got it , and most of my other cars got to around 300,000 , give or take . Yes , my 1.8L 190 I upgraded to the 2.3 , partly as I was advised the head gasket would probably go again if I fixed it , and besides it was underpowered , so fitting the more torquey 2.3L version was beneficial . My two other 190s were still on their original engines when passed on ; in fact I've only done two engine swaps over the last 50 odd years , and virtually all of my cars did substantially more than 200,000 .

I did a head gasket change on one of my Audi 100s , I changed the water pump on my Ponton , and did one on one of my 190s . Also changed a couple of starter motors and clutches in my time , but really I've had relatively few problems . Routine servicing , plugs , oil/filters , and the odd dizzy cap , as well as things like tyres , exhausts , batteries , discs and pads are all just consumable items . I do all these things myself , often using used parts , so the cost of repairs is extremely reasonable . I put a used stainless back box , a used window regulator and a used OVP relay onto my current car quite recently .

There are still plenty of 124s around ; I bought my current one just two years ago , so yes anyone can still buy them ; next year the earliest ones will be 40 years old ; already early 190s , W123s , R107s and W126s are exempt from the ULEZ in the one city where it is a problem ; and here in Scotland vehicles only need to be 30 years old to be exempt from the LEZs , which actually only cover very small central areas within four of our cities .

Having been driving older M-Bs for many decades now , I have a useful stockpile of parts in my storage container , and when I take out something like an alternator , starter motor or window regulator , I get the rebuild kit and refurbish it , ready to be used again - the rear window regulator I just replaced in my 124 came from my stock of parts , and then I bought the repair kit from eBay for £6 to replace the drive cables and plastic wheels that had worn out , so all good to go again .

Not just M-Bs , we have had numerous Golfs , Polos , Audis and even air cooled Beetles in the family racking up the mileages , and when things do go wrong , they tend to be easy to repair . I don't really think high mileages are much of an issue for all that many cars nowadays .
 
We get that a lot. When we renew old IT kit for customers, we also include in our quote the cost of recycling the old equipment by an accredited IT recycling contractor. We are then often told to 'donate it to charities', and we have to explain to the surprised customer that charities do not want 10 years old PCs! Like the rest of us, they want current tech.
I'm still using 3 mac pros from 2008/2009 , a Powermac G5 which is about 5 years older ( runs legacy software the newer ones don't ) , and a macbook Pro which is from 2009 ; all still do what I need them to for photography and HD video editing .

I am toying with getting one of the current generation Mac Pro towers ( but not a new one ) as I'm thinking of moving up to 4K production and the render times will grow significantly , even with my 8 core mac Pro that I use just now , but it is still plenty capable of editing HD footage .
 
Historically, yes. Now ... not so much.

For example some current cars have no instrument cluster or switchgear - everything is done via a single big touchscreen. That's not going to be easy to replace 10-15 years from now, and without it the car is dead. EVs in particular are evolving quickly so many are produced in low numbers for a relatively short time before being replaced - it's not realistic to expect replacement parts for all of them to be available off into the future, and electronic components are not the sort of thing that a bloke with a lathe can knock up for you if necessary. Changing times.
Indeed , but many of us who have older cars , even like your R129 , are already stockpiling parts ( and many R129 parts are out of the W124 and W140 parts bins ) so that we can keep our cars running , and refurbish worn parts after removing them so that they can be used again .

I agree that won't work with the newer stuff , but older cars are sustainable in ways that newer ones won't be .
 
Agree with most of that, although 10-15 years was just an example - there have already been examples of much younger cars where critical parts have no longer been available. It really isn't the case that "anything can be repaired or replaced if people want to".
I think I’m correct that anything can be repaired or replaced. It may not be economically viable, but someone, somewhere will be able to do so. Supply and demand will dictate whether or not this happens in practice though!

Think about older cars - many MBs have had ECUs repaired, instrument clusters overhauled, electronic ignition switches overhauled etc. Not DIY jobs for most people but it’s possible if the demand is there.
 
Supply and demand I guess - if there’s sufficient demand for a particular part then someone will offer a repair or replacement.

But realistically - when you compare a 10-15 year old EV (or average ICE car) with a new one, would there be much demand to keep one running for much longer than that? Most mainstream cars become obsolete generally, certainly tech wise - cars have changed from the old days when all you had was a radio and a couple of switches inside!

The goal would be to make them affordable to own (purchase/lease cost) and cheap to run for 10-15 years (low cost of servicing, major components designed to last that long) and easily recyclable.

No one wants to run cars these days until they’re rusty and need rebuilding, new paint, suspension, engine and gearboxes overhauled etc. Saggy and worn out interiors, out of date tech etc. Many middle-aged ICE cars have been scrapped due to being beyond economical repair - if a 10-15 year old car needs a four figure repair it’s not unusual to see them not repaired by choice.

Don’t get me wrong I’ve run older cars for most of my life (and own a few!) and have some nice nostalgic memories but almost no-one washes their own car these days let alone does any servicing or repairs! :)

Cars are a disposable item for most people and are usually leased or financed and replaced after a few years - just like most people do with their phones.
I generally take my car through the car wash about once a month .

Changed my coolant about two weeks ago before the cold weather arrived . Prior to that , back in the summer , rebuilt the front brakes , replaced the rear exhaust and blower motor ( old one is in my shed to be refurbished ) , and fitted my tow bar . Due an oil change which will be done over the holidays . I just do things as and when needed , and don't pay garage bills .
 
One of my seven 124s had a new short motor at 380,000 , before I got it and was on 470,000 miles when I broke it . The high mileage one ( the Indian E250D ) was on its original engine at 650,000 when sold on ( although that car had manual gearbox issues ) but it had been a taxi before I got it , and most of my other cars got to around 300,000 , give or take . Yes , my 1.8L 190 I upgraded to the 2.3 , partly as I was advised the head gasket would probably go again if I fixed it , and besides it was underpowered , so fitting the more torquey 2.3L version was beneficial . My two other 190s were still on their original engines when passed on ; in fact I've only done two engine swaps over the last 50 odd years , and virtually all of my cars did substantially more than 200,000 .

I did a head gasket change on one of my Audi 100s , I changed the water pump on my Ponton , and did one on one of my 190s . Also changed a couple of starter motors and clutches in my time , but really I've had relatively few problems . Routine servicing , plugs , oil/filters , and the odd dizzy cap , as well as things like tyres , exhausts , batteries , discs and pads are all just consumable items . I do all these things myself , often using used parts , so the cost of repairs is extremely reasonable . I put a used stainless back box , a used window regulator and a used OVP relay onto my current car quite recently .

There are still plenty of 124s around ; I bought my current one just two years ago , so yes anyone can still buy them ; next year the earliest ones will be 40 years old ; already early 190s , W123s , R107s and W126s are exempt from the ULEZ in the one city where it is a problem ; and here in Scotland vehicles only need to be 30 years old to be exempt from the LEZs , which actually only cover very small central areas within four of our cities .

Having been driving older M-Bs for many decades now , I have a useful stockpile of parts in my storage container , and when I take out something like an alternator , starter motor or window regulator , I get the rebuild kit and refurbish it , ready to be used again - the rear window regulator I just replaced in my 124 came from my stock of parts , and then I bought the repair kit from eBay for £6 to replace the drive cables and plastic wheels that had worn out , so all good to go again .

Not just M-Bs , we have had numerous Golfs , Polos , Audis and even air cooled Beetles in the family racking up the mileages , and when things do go wrong , they tend to be easy to repair . I don't really think high mileages are much of an issue for all that many cars nowadays .
Derek, you’re a lifetime MB fan and enthusiast - but in the nicest possible way you’re eccentric and must realise that you’re out of touch with the general population :)

Hardly anyone wants to drive a W124 and as they’re not made any longer, they wouldn’t be able to even if more people did. If you buy a W124 someone else is losing one so what are they going to drive? 🫣😅

Think how much money you must have spent in fuel driving hundreds of thousands of miles? And imagine how much most people would have to spend on repairs - labour rates are usually quite high at garages and they won’t be rebuilding window regulators etc.

If everyone started driving old cars into major cities the rules would be changed to stop them.

Sometimes you have to move with the times, that’s what most people do :)
 
No one wants to run cars these days until they’re rusty and need rebuilding, new paint, suspension, engine and gearboxes overhauled etc. Saggy and worn out interiors, out of date tech etc. Many middle-aged ICE cars have been scrapped due to being beyond economical repair - if a 10-15 year old car needs a four figure repair it’s not unusual to see them not repaired by choice.


While I agree and see the challenges of keep a modern car on the road well into old age, I rather think it's a shame because in some respects pre LCD modern cars are better and more reliable than their predecessors.

I've had my 2009 W204 for 10 years now and it's worth so little that I admit I'd be prepared to scrap it if a major repair expense came along. The shame is that when I compare it with my last long termer, a 190e kept until 26 years old I believe it's in better shape than the 190e was at the same age. Subframe aside, the rust protection is better, unlike the 190e, there hasn't been a single fault other than a failed shock absorber replaced under warranty. The interior is in better shape because the door cards haven't failed like they did in the 190e. The exhaust system is original while the 190e had been on it's 3rd rear box by the same age. The fuel economy is still more than competitive and it drives in a modern enough way.

I loved my 190e but the W204 is vastly better in every respect except perhaps secondary ride quality.
 
Pretty sure most modern Mercedes owners would rip their right arm off for a nice old Mercedes w124 when they have to stump up for some parts which frequently fail in modern Mercedes cars. Nox sensors for example or LED headlamps.

Plenty of countries do not have a culture of conspicuous consumption like parts of the UK. Spain for example. Plenty of old cars used over there on a daily basis. Not to mention how environmentally damaging conspicuous consumption is. Still all fits in with the utter nonsense known as net zero.
 
If I lived in a house with a garage, I would very much enjoy a classic or two to maintain, restore, and take out on special occasions.

But as my daily drive, I'd be worried about taking the children and grandchildren for a long drive in a car with outdated safety systems.

So much progress has been made in passive protection, e.g. crumble zones, multiple airbags, pyrotechnic seat belts, etc, not to mention active safety features e.g. ESP, collision avoidance, blind spot assist, etc.

We had a 1997 Toyota Previa from new for over 25 years, and kept it in Europe. Great car that never went wrong. I decided to get rid of it when the grandchildren were born, no way am I driving the kids on Europe's motorways with a car with a 25+ years old safety design.
 
Pretty sure most modern Mercedes owners would rip their right arm off for a nice old Mercedes w124 when they have to stump up for some parts which frequently fail in modern Mercedes cars. Nox sensors for example or LED headlamps.

Plenty of countries do not have a culture of conspicuous consumption like parts of the UK. Spain for example. Plenty of old cars used over there on a daily basis. Not to mention how environmentally damaging conspicuous consumption is. Still all fits in with the utter nonsense known as net zero.
I think people tend to look at old cars with rose tinted spec though.

Do you not think that newer cars are better than old ones? I’m pretty sure every ten years or so people harp on about how cars that they like are better than the replacements whilst moving the goalposts along. I remember people used to suggest that the W123 was better than the W124. Even the W211 has a bit of a cult following now :)

But in reality - newer cars are more reliable, more efficient, quieter, handle better, have better passive and active safety features, better tech etc.

You can surely suggest that because most people don’t want to drive around in 1980s designed cars that they are conspicuous consumers?
 
Not all old cars are equal. Old Mercedes are pretty special pieces of machinery imo, as i am sure many on here appreciate. The best or nothing. A case could be made that some old cars represent the peak car. Equally some old cars were rubbish. See anything with a blue oval badge.

Same argument can be applied to modern/ new cars. Each to there own.
 
Not all old cars are equal. Old Mercedes are pretty special pieces of machinery imo, as i am sure many on here appreciate. The best or nothing. A case could be made that some old cars represent the peak car. Equally some old cars were rubbish. See anything with a blue oval badge.

Same argument can be applied to modern/ new cars. Each to their own.
Pretty much all Mercedes were good for their time - of course there’s a few exceptions, but times move on.

Otherwise we’d all be driving around in these:

1732893620415.jpeg
 
Just catching up with this thread. Lots of interesting points made.

On a Summer trip from Northamptonshire to just past Mevagissey in Cornwall, towing 1600kg caravan with a single motor EV6. A trip of 280 miles. Set off with full battery, charged at M4 services, quick top up at A38 services then full charge at Kingsbridge in Devon (they have long lane chargers so no unhooking) and on to our destination. No scientific analysis just our experience. Without the van, the car would have done it with one top up stop.

EV cars are very different to ICE. They work and on the trip to Cornwall we would have stopped twice for breaks in any case because they make the trip more comfortable and enjoyable.

The torque, and the Highway Driving Assist (HDA) in the car, eased the journey. The latest medium to large size EV cars are now offering ranges of over 400 miles, the EV6 is 320 miles.

The change is already here, the focus is on improving on what we now have….
 
Derek, you’re a lifetime MB fan and enthusiast - but in the nicest possible way you’re eccentric and must realise that you’re out of touch with the general population :)

Hardly anyone wants to drive a W124 and as they’re not made any longer, they wouldn’t be able to even if more people did. If you buy a W124 someone else is losing one so what are they going to drive? 🫣😅

Think how much money you must have spent in fuel driving hundreds of thousands of miles? And imagine how much most people would have to spend on repairs - labour rates are usually quite high at garages and they won’t be rebuilding window regulators etc.

If everyone started driving old cars into major cities the rules would be changed to stop them.

Sometimes you have to move with the times, that’s what most people do :)
I don’t really think I’m eccentric , I just grudge paying other people to do badly jobs I can do properly myself ; I have a healthy distrust of most garages because most of them are cowboys and have had jobs bodged more than once .

That others haven’t learned basic mechanics as most everyone did when I was young isn’t my fault or my problem; I think it’s sad that so many people don’t know one end of a car from another and are pretty clueless at anything beyond putting fuel in .

Back in the days I did 100,000 miles plus a year driving all over the country , it was mostly for work and I actually made money on it . Since the pandemic I’ve done few business miles , and my personal mileage is of the order of 15,000 pa , one of the reasons I got the E220 this time round was the fuel economy and combined with the recent price hikes for petrol and that I’d be paying for it myself , I went for the smaller engine this time round : I now put in maybe £80 twice a month as opposed to £130 two or sometimes three times a week ( but again I used to get all of that back in mileage claims , and even made on it ) .

In my earlier days most of my cars did sub 20mpg , sometimes sub 15mpg , but I remember petrol being 50p a gallon …

Cars don’t need to be old to need window regulators replaced : I did my first W124 front window regulator when the car was about three years old and still under 100,000 miles , and my sister went through multiple ones on her Ford Mondeo when the car was still practically new ( plastic gears constantly wore out ) . I never had to do one on any Merc older than a 124 , but by the time the 124 came out so many such parts had been cheapened so they would only last around 100,000 miles , but still can be cheaply rebuilt ( guys on here used to weld new metal back into worn quadrants then grind back to the correct profile for the teeth . That the repair kits for the rear ones are abundantly available shows that many other people repair them too .

Perhaps I’m unusual that I overhaul my failed ones and put them away for re-use , but I like to have the part to hand to do the job quickly .

I still see the likes of 190s , 123s and 124s on the road regularly, followed a 124 saloon out to Glasgow Airport on Tuesday night , and generally see similar cars a few times a week if not every day , so there are still plenty of people actually driving them as well as merely wanting to .

Many that come onto the market now are the results of bereavement , as with many other cars , and like the one Spike started the thread about a week or so past . In many other cases there are people who like to rescue cars that have been laid up , so no one else needs to lose out .

A lot of Mercedes that are in the region of 20 , 30 or 40 years old are just on the cusp of being collectible , and are also the last cars that don’t need computers to determine what’s wrong , or expensive electronic modules to replace ; most of the relays or simple ECUs in the older cars don’t tend to suffer from much more than dry solder joints and are in most cases easy to fix .

Later cars , with so many electronic components are not so easy to fix , so they may end up being scrapped first .

I can keep the cars I run , running at very little cost to myself , so for those of us who choose to run and maintain older cars , not just M-B , there is very little reason to change them .

Oh , and we aren’t getting any hike in VED next year ; prices for all pre 2001 cars will remain unchanged , so suddenly an R129 SL 500 will be hugely more attractive than a R230 version , paying half or less of the annual VED .
 
I think I’m correct that anything can be repaired or replaced. It may not be economically viable, but someone, somewhere will be able to do so.

But if a car manufacturer can no longer supply replacement keys (for example) for a particular model it's unlikely they'd release proprietary/sensitive information on how their remote locking and immobiliser protocols work. Without that how would a third party be able to provide a key that would work with an individual car, even if a physical key could be obtained/constructed?
 
But if a car manufacturer can no longer supply replacement keys (for example) for a particular model it's unlikely they'd release proprietary/sensitive information on how their remote locking and immobiliser protocols work. Without that how would a third party be able to provide a key that would work with an individual car, even if a physical key could be obtained/constructed?

Not if you destroy the tooling.....:

 
Not just M-Bs , we have had numerous Golfs , Polos , Audis and even air cooled Beetles in the family racking up the mileages , and when things do go wrong , they tend to be easy to repair . I don't really think high mileages are much of an issue for all that many cars nowadays .
Methinks you should go further on this. High mileages are MUCH easier in the world of internet information, repair, recycling and easy international EBaying (

No-one needs to climb on top of a car in a scrap yard, screwdriver, hammer and pliers in hand to pull out bits for their cherished older vehicle.

Pour a cup of tea, pull out the laptop, and in minutes you can not only order the used part for delivery to your front door but also you can look up how to take apart and fit the wretched thing.

Pixels playing up in your BMW 750iL, as they all do? No problem, not even a remove replace: look up the guy who can fix your display for you.
 
But if a car manufacturer can no longer supply replacement keys (for example) for a particular model it's unlikely they'd release proprietary/sensitive information on how their remote locking and immobiliser protocols work. Without that how would a third party be able to provide a key that would work with an individual car, even if a physical key could be obtained/constructed?
Our chums from The East are all over it like a rash before the car is but a year old.

Need a new key, sir? Not a problem, I can make that for you, to the same quality as Mercedes, and fitted to your specific vehicle.

OK, maybe not for @Will 's Mercedes

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